Poll for hotly debated units in new commanders.

The Calliope's main gun isn't animated so that can't be done.

Damn.

Why there isn't an option to keep Normal Sherman bulldozer and the M3 Halftrack?

Because if you really just want the bulldozer in one slot you're probably the only person that does and a lot of people including the community mod team seem to be dead set on replacing it with which I agree since it'd be better for an M5 HT with med kits and the Quad .50 upgrade or for it to be replaced with the weapons M3 than keep it as it is.

Overall I've just made this poll for the most popular of the options so to speak, you're free to make your own since I can't edit it sadly.

Dear katitof PLS stop your silly campaign of trying to prove me wrong. Filling the forum with pointless, failed attempts to prove me wrong is completely non constructive and its guess it becoming increasingly tiring to everyone reading these post.

Even you compare the Easy8 to the T-34/85 it as at least as durable. It can take the same number of shots and has more armor.

It has 720hp which is lower than 800hp of t34/85, also its 215 armor is lower than the 234 armor of okw p4 (and ost vet 2 p4 too). Ofcourse easy8 has something better than them, its more/as expensive, right?

My original point was that easy8 is at the same power level as t34/85 and okw p4, just because it has better gun in exchange for durability, mobility and reload doesnt make it "premium" tank over these two. It also has worse anti infantry performance than t34/85 and okw p4 so there is a lot of things its worse at than these two. And now we come back to original point, how would easy8 be broken in combination with calliope? I just dont see that when every other faction can have far more powerful combination.

I don't think it'd be overpowered, but it'd probably kill poor Tactical Support stone dead.

Sorry to say it dude, but tactical support is dead for a few years now. There is nothing to kill here. Which probably shows us how bad calliope is since this doctrine has some good abilities: lmg for rifles, recon overflight which is always good and m5 hf, best anti aircraft vehicle in game. If these abilities are not enough to make this doctrine useful it means calliope is really terrible.

And i really dont think new usf commander (or any commander to be honest) should be adjusted with unused for years, nerfed to the groud commanders from the past in mind.

It has 720hp which is lower than 800hp of t34/85, also its 215 armor is lower than the 234 armor of okw p4 (and ost vet 2 p4 too).

Durability:
T-34/85 vs Easy8

HP
800 HP vs 720 HP both can take 5 shots from tanks, slight advantage to T-34/85 is shrecks are involved.

Armor
160/80 vs 215/95 advantage goes to Easy8 that bounce shot even from Stugs/JPs.

I would say Easy8 is more durable but will settle for equal durability.

OKW PzIV vs Easy8

640 HP vs 720 HP both clear advantage to Easy8 being able to take an extra shot.

Armor
234/80 vs 215/95 slight advantage to PzIV (although with penetration values of allied its armor hardy makes a difference)

I would say Easy8 is more durable but will settle for equal durability.

Ofcourse easy8 has something better than them, its more/as expensive, right?

Wrong.Pls check your stats both Easy8 and OKW PzIV cost 380/140 the T-34/85 cost 380/130.

Since Easy8 comes with a 0.75 accuracy on the move, smoke and crew I would say that is more cost efficient than both the other 2.

My original point was that easy8 is at the same power level as t34/85 and okw p4, just because it has better gun in exchange for durability, mobility and reload doesnt make it "premium" tank over these two. It also has worse anti infantry performance than t34/85 and okw p4 so there is a lot of things its worse at than these two. And now we come back to original point, how would easy8 be broken in combination with calliope? I just dont see that when every other faction can have far more powerful combination.

It is my opinion that commanders should not give superior units in different areas like indirect fire (calliope) and armor (Easy8). Especially since Ostheer will probably have to relay on paks/ shrecks to counter Easy8s and those can be countered by caliope.

In addition in order for more commanders to viable the power level of commander should be about equal and commander with both calliope and Easy8 would make both Tactical support and Rifle companies obsolete.

Wrong.Pls check your stats both Easy8 and OKW PzIV cost 380/140 the T-34/85 cost 380/130.

I said easy8 is more/as expensive. You show me example that easy8 is indeed as expensive or more expensive than one of these tanks (okw p4, t34/85) and than you say im wrong. I dont understand...

Since Easy8 comes with a 0.75 accuracy on the move, smoke and crew I would say that is more cost efficient than both the other 2.

I was saying nothing about cost efficiency, for me okw p4 is most cost efficient medium tank simply because its ideal versus allied tools, mainly its armor vs bazookas/ptrs/usf at gun and blitz that lets it engage/disengage with ease.

It is my opinion that commanders should not give superior units in different areas like indirect fire (calliope) and armor (Easy8). Especially since Ostheer will probably have to relay on paks/ shrecks to counter Easy8s and those can be countered by caliope.

Its your oppinion, my opinion is that usf tier 3 is weak when it comes to unit variety, much like soviet one. Soviets get many doctrines with multiple armor units to compensate, usf doctrines have usualy only 1 armor unit (exception: armor doctrine). Also you worded it like usf will get calliope and easy8 for free. Easy8 is not call in vehicle, you will have to tech up which is a ton of fuel to get them both, and ostheer player will have enough time to build counters (nondoctrinal counters, like panther for example). Or just pick new ostheer commander and call in tiger without teching cost, thats the meta right now.

In addition in order for more commanders to viable the power level of commander should be about equal and commander with both calliope and Easy8 would make both Tactical support and Rifle companies obsolete.

Im afraid you are living in the past, both rifle and tactical support commanders are dead for years now. No matter how bad you will make new usf commander, these 2 wont get picked anyway. You will just add another unused commander to the list.

PLS make up your mind:

...
Easy8 is mediocre unit in terrible commander
...

...
My original point was that easy8 is at the same power level as t34/85 and okw p4, just because it has better gun in exchange for durability, mobility and reload doesnt make it "premium" tank over these two...

...
I was saying nothing about cost efficiency, for me okw p4 is most cost efficient medium tank simply because its ideal versus allied tools, mainly its armor vs bazookas/ptrs/usf at gun and blitz that lets it engage/disengage with ease.
...

Now in your opinion the Easy8 is mediocre unit with same power level of OKW PzIV, while the PzIV with same cost is the most cost efficient medium tank.

You are simply contradicting yourself.

You have tried to present the Easy8 as inferior to other premium mediums when clearly it is not, now pls lets move on.

PLS make up your mind:




Now in your opinion the Easy8 is mediocre unit with same power level of OKW PzIV, while the PzIV with same cost is the most cost efficient medium tank.

You are simply contradicting yourself.

You have tried to present the Easy8 as inferior to other premium mediums when clearly it is not, now pls lets move on.

"Power level" is not equal to performance. Just as pershing and tiger are at similar power level, both costing the same and having the same role (heavy tank), yet tiger outperforms pershing because it has better stats for its intended role. Same with easy8 and oke p4, easy8 has some adventages but p4 is better where it counts for medium tank: anti infantry capabilities, armor, mobility.

"Power level" is not equal to performance. Just as pershing and tiger are at similar power level, both costing the same and having the same role (heavy tank), yet tiger outperforms pershing because it has better stats for its intended role. Same with easy8 and oke p4, easy8 has some adventages but p4 is better where it counts for medium tank: anti infantry capabilities, armor, mobility.

Ok you simply want to continue to argue semantics, I will have no part in it.

PzIV frontal armor advantage is inferior to extra HP Easy8 and Easy8 has superior rear armor (okw PzIV has even less than Ostheer PzIV). Point goes to Easy8.

Once more you data is simply false about mobility:
PzIV Speed: 6/Accel: 2/Rotate: 30
Easy8 Speed: 6.1/Accel: 2.1/Rotate: 32
Easy8 is simply more mobile. Point goes to Easy8.

PzIV has a better AI but Easy8 has enough AI and it supported by deadlier infatry.
Point goes to PzIV.

In addition Easy8 get better moving accuracy, smoke and a crew.

It is simply not inferior. Pls move on.

My guess is you'll never see Ez8/76mm and Calliope on the same doctrine because it breaks USF commander's design rules.

If you suddenly gives USF with Ez8 and Calliope and make Calliope relevant again, then why would you pickup any other doctrine?
Remember that USF design is made around lacks and not synergies.

USF has to lack of something from the following list:

Elite Infantry
Premium medium
Onmap Arty

A commander with Ranger + Premium tank + Onmap Arty would completely break the rule and that what you're asking for by adding Ez8 to Urban Assault.

USF is about forbidden synergies.
Elite infantry can be associated with Premium tank or with Onmap Arty but Premium tank can't be associated with Onmap arty.
Premium tank and Onmap Artillery can't be associated with strong offmap arty. Only exception is Mechanized with the Jeep. With premium tanks or Onmap Arty you get Willy Peter, Time on Target, Strafing run or 205mm. But not bombing run or 188 callin barrage. Don't get me wrong, those weak barrages have their use but they are clearly specific and they could all of them being replaced by the 188mm barrage with at the minimum the same effect.
Callin M8 light vehicle can't be associated with a callin ATgun (too strong synergy you know)
etc...

Let's just take a simple example here: Tiger + Stuka run. Or Tiger + fragbomb and Strafing run. Do you imagine a second Relic associating in the same Commander the Pershing and Bombing run together?

This is how USF is design and, in my opinion, the reason why the new USF commander feel so uninteresting because almost of possible synergies allowed for that faction are already covered. What USF really needs isn't a new commander but fixing the Calliope and Rifle Doctrines at least so both become viable again.

Rifle company is already, on paper, a great doctrine for urban maps
Tactical Support is also great doctrine on paper for open maps, as much as Infantry company.

They just need to fix them.

My guess is you'll never see Ez8/76mm and Calliope on the same doctrine because it breaks USF commander's design rules.

If you suddenly gives USF with Ez8 and Calliope and make Calliope relevant again, then why would you pickup any other doctrine?
Remember that USF design is made around lacks and not synergies.

USF has to lack of something from the following list:

Elite Infantry
Premium medium
Onmap Arty

A commander with Ranger + Premium tank + Onmap Arty would completely break the rule and that what you're asking for by adding Ez8 to Urban Assault.

USF is about forbidden synergies.
Elite infantry can be associated with Premium tank or with Onmap Arty but Premium tank can't be associated with Onmap arty.
Premium tank and Onmap Artillery can't be associated with strong offmap arty. Only exception is Mechanized with the Jeep. With premium tanks or Onmap Arty you get Willy Peter, Time on Target, Strafing run or 205mm. But not bombing run or 188 callin barrage. Don't get me wrong, those weak barrages have their use but they are clearly specific and they could all of them being replaced by the 188mm barrage with at the minimum the same effect.
Callin M8 light vehicle can't be associated with a callin ATgun (too strong synergy you know)
etc...

Let's just take a simple example here: Tiger + Stuka run. Or Tiger + fragbomb and Strafing run. Do you imagine a second Relic associating in the same Commander the Pershing and Bombing run together?

This is how USF is design and, in my opinion, the reason why the new USF commander feel so uninteresting because almost of possible synergies allowed for that faction are already covered. What USF really needs isn't a new commander but fixing the Calliope and Rifle Doctrines at least so both become viable again.

Rifle company is already, on paper, a great doctrine for urban maps
Tactical Support is also great doctrine on paper for open maps, as much as Infantry company.

They just need to fix them.

I believe you're overthinking it dude lol but I agree that Rifle and Tac Support Companies need a rework.

I believe you're overthinking it dude lol but I agree that Rifle and Tac Support Companies need a rework.

If you don't see how a new commander with 3 callin of elite infantry, premium tank and onmap arty is not at the same level than every other USF commander, I can't help you more. Not saying this would be too powerful or else, just that this commander would become insta pick in 90% of games.

The only reason why it wouldn't is if the Calliope stay trashy as it is and I'm not even sure of that.

Ok you simply want to continue to argue semantics, I will have no part in it.

PzIV frontal armor advantage is inferior to extra HP Easy8 and Easy8 has superior rear armor (okw PzIV has even less than Ostheer PzIV). Point goes to Easy8.

Once more you data is simply false about mobility:
PzIV Speed: 6/Accel: 2/Rotate: 30
Easy8 Speed: 6.1/Accel: 2.1/Rotate: 32
Easy8 is simply more mobile. Point goes to Easy8.

PzIV has a better AI but Easy8 has enough AI and it supported by deadlier infatry.
Point goes to PzIV.

In addition Easy8 get better moving accuracy, smoke and a crew.

It is simply not inferior. Pls move on.

You simply misunderstood what i tried to say but i belive you got it now.

P4 armor adventage is superior to easy8 measly 80hp because it lets you avoid potentialy many more shots instead of one guaranteed snare for easy8. Especialy when you take into account disparity between zook/m1 57 and pshreck/raketen penetration. Point for p4.

P4 has combat blitz ability which not only makes it faster but also for some reason improves its accuracy. Point for p4.

P4 has better anti infantry performance. Point for p4.

If you don't see how a new commander with 3 callin of elite infantry, premium tank and onmap arty is not at the same level than every other USF commander, I can't help you more. Not saying this would be too powerful or else, just that this commander would become insta pick in 90% of games.

The only reason why it wouldn't is if the Calliope stay trashy as it is and I'm not even sure of that.

It wouldnt be instapick. Mechanized is still stronger against okw than this potential commander. Armor with ass engies still offers stronger early game. Heavy cav still offers call in tank, superior in every way to easy8 and requiring less fuel to get (you can skip tech). Infantry still offers better artillery (better commander for team games). It would end up somewhere in the middle of the pack. Simply put, easy8 is not a call in so it wont be a challange to command panther or command tiger.

Now look at okw new commander. Its just stronger spec ops, with more flexible call in tank and better supporting abilities. Which means it will end up as no.1 okw commander. And that is equal to being best commander in the game.

People nowadays only want OP units with OP combinations, no will to play, just cheesy wins. That's the problem.

It wouldnt be instapick. Mechanized is still stronger against okw than this potential commander. Armor with ass engies still offers stronger early game. Heavy cav still offers call in tank, superior in every way to easy8 and requiring less fuel to get (you can skip tech). Infantry still offers better artillery (better commander for team games). It would end up somewhere in the middle of the pack. Simply put, easy8 is not a call in so it wont be a challange to command panther or command tiger.

You're assuming people would still insta pick early game counters even if they can have elite infantry + premium tank + calliope?

The commander will still lack offmap arty, a huge boon for countering on map field guns

The commander will still lack a heavy tank

The commander will still lack any scouting

The commander will still lack dedicated long range combat squads (m1919s, paras (with m1919s), pathfinders)

The commander still won't have a priest, which is a big deal in some team maps, for its range



There will be plenty of reason to use other commanders.

You're assuming people would still insta pick early game counters even if they can have elite infantry + premium tank + calliope?

Ofcourse, almost nothing changed since usf rework and commander revamp when it comes to usf vs okw early game EXCEPT new commanders with strong early call in units. If you choose to play, lets say, heavy cav you still have the same bad early game matchup against okw which puts you behind when you reach mid and late game. Thats why most people switched from instalocking heavy cav to things like mechanized or armor. These doctrines are pretty much the only "fix" usf got in terms of their viability against okw early game dominance.

Now look at this commander. We have rifle nades for REs which are cool but in no way help you defend against volks blob, its more of a supporting tool. Next, 2 abilities copied from heavy cav, pretty good but in no way help you survive early game, and there is good chance you will have your full infantry roster at 3cp so rangers might be not needed this late. Then there is dozer blade, no comment... And last, calliope, which one of these units can turn game around in your opinion, pershing or calliope? I think its clear.

If you change dozer blade with easy8 you get more variety in terms of armor, but not raw strenght increase. When you tech to tier3, which you should do as soon as possible with this commander, you will probably want 75mm to deal with vetted volks and obers. Next vehicle you will want is probably jackson to deal with panzer4s and very possible at that point panther. There is little room for easy8, its not good enough to be obvious pick over 75mm and has some serious drawbacks (low mobility, slow reload, not so great survivability).

But the most importand reason why easy8 wouldnt be broken here is that ITS NOT A CALL IN UNIT. Its the meta for some time now, even if you look at the previous team tournament (the one with 5k$ prize) you can see that doctrines with call ins are prefered even in team games, armored assault every game is good example. When it comes to 1v1 its even worse, its all about command panther, is2, kv2, command p4, tiger. USF is forced to go armor or mechanized vs okw but pershing is still good vs ost becasue you dont get murdered in early game and you get precious call in vehicle. Easy8, being somewhere around okw p4 and t34/85, requiring tech is simply no match for these strategies, at least not alone. Now compare fuel cost to deploy stuka + c panthers vs calliope + easy8. Which one of these combinations is stronger? Which one is cheaper? Remember, no need for tier3 for okw. In realistic 1v1 scenario spec ops is still much stronger doctrine.

And please stop calling easy8 "premium tank", its as premium as okw p4 or t34/85, and nobody calls them premium for some reason.

Ofcourse, almost nothing changed since usf rework and commander revamp when it comes to usf vs okw early game EXCEPT new commanders with strong early call in units. If you choose to play, lets say, heavy cav you still have the same bad early game matchup against okw which puts you behind when you reach mid and late game. Thats why most people switched from instalocking heavy cav to things like mechanized or armor. These doctrines are pretty much the only "fix" usf got in terms of their viability against okw early game dominance.

Mechanized is a cheese strat vs OKW because if you fail with your dodge/Cav there is nothing else in the doctrine. It is popular today because of the dodge bug but that pretty much all.

A commander with Ranger, Ez8 and Calliope gives you the upper hand on infantry fight with the rangers, Ez8 denying the Pz4 and remains a good compromise vs Panther while still dealing good damage vs infantry and the Calliope to harass his trucks.

OKW is broken at the moment, all 3 allied factions are forced to use cheese early vehicle strat to counter the volkspam should be balance team's first consideration instead of new commanders.

Mechanized is a cheese strat vs OKW because if you fail with your dodge/Cav there is nothing else in the doctrine. It is popular today because of the dodge bug but that pretty much all.

A commander with Ranger, Ez8 and Calliope gives you the upper hand on infantry fight with the rangers, Ez8 denying the Pz4 and remains a good compromise vs Panther while still dealing good damage vs infantry and the Calliope to harass his trucks.

OKW is broken at the moment, all 3 allied factions are forced to use cheese early vehicle strat to counter the volkspam should be balance team's first consideration instead of new commanders.

Mechanized strenght vs okw has nothing to do with any bugs, its all about wc51 and cav rifles synergy.

Easy8 is countered hard by panther, its slower than 75mm and has no chance to deflect shots while struggling to penetrate. You are hyping this combination so much but in reality its weaker than heavy cav (while requiring tons of fuel).

You know very well they wont fix any of the broken okw stuff. Command panther will stay, just as volks spam, jli and now even double schrek 250mp inf and call in tiger. Usf needs good stuff to counter this.

Mechanized strenght vs okw has nothing to do with any bugs, its all about wc51 and cav rifles synergy.

Easy8 is countered hard by panther, its slower than 75mm and has no chance to deflect shots while struggling to penetrate. You are hyping this combination so much but in reality its weaker than heavy cav (while requiring tons of fuel).

You know very well they wont fix any of the broken okw stuff. Command panther will stay, just as volks spam, jli and now even double schrek 250mp inf and call in tiger. Usf needs good stuff to counter this.

So a "Tank is struggling against a TD" or a "TD doing it's job" and most expensive stock TD one might add. How many times have I read this argument when it comes to Allied TDs.

The chance of Easy8 to penetrate a Panther is not actually that bad.

60%/63%/77%

Ofcourse Panther (easy8) has something better than them, its more/as expensive, right?