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Back to the commander. The commander is simply not appealing, it can be good on paper and ingame it just doesn't have identity. Riflenade, smoke gimmick, zook on rangers, blades and calliope sounds nice but they aren't giving any identity to the commander.
+ It doesn't fit the USF meta used today and the balance team doesn't seem to be willing to correct it. There is a reason why everyone is going mechanized today or CP0 calling units. And this is not only because it funniest than classic start.
- Are riflenade going to gives any edge vs OKW early game? no.
- Is smoke gimmick going to be more than situational? don't think so.
- Are you going to switch from Jackson / Scott combo to super amo expensive sherman blade? don't think so.
- Are ranger with zook going to be anything good? Do you think a super expensive unit that will be half vaporized by any pz4 shot or new Ostwind is going to be relevant, even with 3 zooks? At least Para have ambush mode to strike first, can heal and reinforce on the field.
- Is the Calliope going to be a game changer as the Pershing can be, you really need to invest fuel in it, 110 fuel is a huge investment. So do you think you're going to call a Calliope before a Jackson, or a Calliope instead of a Sherman HE shell that can at least defend itself vs a rushing Pz4.
- Is the commander giving you the opportunity to go full T1 or full T2 and completing with the commander resources? no. I mean if you decide to go Calliope rush you definitively need T2 but then you have nothing in the commander abilities that gives you T1 abilities such as suppression or light vehicles.
- No mines to defend your Calliope
- No vision to make its strikes more accurate
- No off-map arty to deny a position
- Calliope concise you into a more defensive play for some time but you have zero defensive capability in the commander.
I mean, there is a reason why Infantry and Calliope commanders have those abilities...
My conclusion is that this commander will have some use on teamgame where, again, your partner can provides the usual necessity so you can go offtrack and try to surprise your opponents but I don't see it feeding the necesary needs to complete your roaster.
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I would say that the issue with Battlegruppe HQ is the fact that it has paltry answers to vehicles and tanks. However, I would say that giving the leIG an AT mode is not the solution. I would say that the solution is to make the leIG 18 the M1 Pack Howitzer of OKW; a reliable, powerful indirect fire unit.
You'll need to get ride of OKW T3 canon then. In my opinion the reason why OKW can't get access to better version of HMG/atgun/Indirect fire units is because of OKW T3 that can already lock 1/3 of a 1vs1 map and cover your Leig from any assault.
I mean take a good look at the PakHowi, close your eyes, visualize it and then put OKW T3 close to it as defense. |
Seeing the Panther nerffed further would have to come with a cost reduction, 175 fuel for a Panther is a lot. Especially since it will be fighting self spotting SU-85s, Fireflys which will rocket it and the Jacksons popping shells. The design of the panther before it got nerffed was to have to get in closer to fight tanks than allied TD's. So it needed surviability to do so. It's just the blitz/smoke combo that was infuriating to fight again.
Panther doesn't need to close any distance to penetrate 90% of any allied tanks. IS2 and ISU are probably the only 2 exceptions. Closing the distance for any other purpose than delivering the last blow to a tank is a classic error. Keep your panther at its max range, which is already lower than TD and you'll be more than fine penetrating all your hit (except IS2 or ISU)
IMO Panther is fine where it's at, it even underperforms in some team games due to having to get in closer while all the allied TD's outrange it but I think that's more of a L2P issue.
Panther is fine because it has now a good compromise between armor and dps. |
- Volks were way cheaper (235MP and 5 popcap) and had way better RA (with vet) and better vet in general than Panzerfusiliers;
- Volks back then had no other upgrades and there was nothing else in stock OKW roster to spend munitions on (except Obers);
- Back then Volks got crazy amounts of experience from hitting vehicles which allowed them to vet up really fast, further increasing their remaining AI. That's no longer the case;
- There were no other strategic choices, unlike now where one must choose between AI or AT upgrades;
- Panzerfusiliers with 2x Schrecks have practically no AI DPS left, unlike Volks Schrecks that still had pretty decent AI. One Allied stock mainline infantry squad has a good chance at fighting off up to three Panzerschreck Panzerfusiliers squads, an upgraded squad will do so with ease;
- Panzerfusiliers are super munitions heavy with 90 MUNI and 120 MUNI upgrades;
- The doctrine itself is pretty munitions heavy.
Panzerschrecks deal 120 damage per shot. Assuming all four shots connect (which is unlikely), it will do a maximum of 480 alpha damage which is 160 damage short of killing a medium tank. You need 6 shots to kill one so either you'd need three squads (840 manpower and 360 munitions) or to hit follow up shots.
Two Panzerfusiliers with Panzerschrecks cost more than two Royal Engineers with 4x PIATs which is also enough to force off any Axis medium tank, so I don't really see how that's an argument.
Didn´t talked about alfa strike, said ensure kill assuming squad will shot twice or make the tank flies away with a silver of life. But as you mentioned it, 3 squads are enough to take down any medium with one alfa strike.
I mean Ostheer are already doing it with Pzgren, I did it myself numerous time with Pzgren which are much more expensive and only 4 men squad on a faction you need to upgrade your gren to keep them relevant.
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Daily reminder that current Panzerfusiliers Schrecks are not comparable at all to old Volks Schrecks for a huge number of reasons.
You'll have to name them.
290mp unit that can be equiped with dual shreck. You need 2 squads to ensure a wipe on 90% of tanks Allied can field or to force instant retreat for those medium. Not to mention that volks still have pfaust which they didn't have back with their shreck.
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The match start really badly for me. |
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Brace yourself for the pzf shreckblob to hell on 4vs4. |
Why not get rid of the shrecks and make them a proper anti infantry squad? Might as well give pioneers the shreck upgrade after reaching t2 and doing a side teching upgrade to get the shrecks (say 30 fuel and 100mp or whatever). Then you need to upgrade them for a 60-70 muni upgrade for the pioneers. This would make shrecks a very potent weapon on a very squishy platform (pioneers). Gettin shreck will mean no other upgrades for pioneers.
Perhaps Pgrens could get a combined arms effect when working with light, medium or heavy armor.
piospam/shreck everywhere.  |
I had an idea.
How about bunkers didn´t cost manpower to build, but upgrading them cost manpower + munitions.
What's your rank again? |
Wouldnt be a problem if the balance team wasn't so adamant in not nerfing OKW and adjusting Soviets accordingly (looking at you maxim/cons/penals). Instead they buff WFA and East gets left in the dust and game becomes more and more stale and a battle of call-ins and cheese. It is in a really boring state right now, imo.
And theres the problem of Ostheer being solid in team games and OKW being flat out stupid. WFA is overstated in this because both lack proper rocket artillery and only have 1 doc for proper artillery. LM gets decrewed and calliope is a big meme and both again lock you to pretty "meh" doctrines aswell.
Game exists outside of 1v1 just as a FYI to people.
And if u want to nerf Pathfinders then further nerf JLI and overwatch. But we all know thats not happening.
Probably the most relevant comment here, Balance team has a bias with OKW and the balance of this game will only go forward when they acknowledge it and bring the necessary changes on OKW early game, adjust accordingly their mid game to keep them relevant AND nerf M3/WC51/UC start for all 3 allied factions. Then suddenly Ostheer is probably benefit from it without touching the faction. |
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