Profile of Esxile

Not really they are not relevant to the topic.

Your claim:

I simply wrong. The m20 did not remain the same during these "years" and contrary to your claim it was not nerfed it was buffed directly and indirectly with the tech changes.

Currently it one of the strongest units of cost and time frame.

M20 was the same during the last patch and nobody complained about it. Try gain.

Yet with in these year it M20 has received massive buff like:
-Manpower cost from 340 to 240
-M20 accuracy from 0.75/0.475/0.2 to 0.55/0.45/0.25
-Weapon accuracy increases with veterancy: +10%/+15%/+15%
-Veterancy requirements lowered from 880/1760/3520 to 500/1000/2000
-Veterancy 3 reduces mine deployment time from 12 to 7 seconds.
-Veterancy 3 increases stealth detection radius by 10; goes up to 35.

Not to mention the tech changes.

The unit was OP. Actually many USF units where OP but that was intentional because it was counter weight by the tech limitations. Once the tech limitation where removed these units had to be adjusted.

While you are at it, can you list the change to any other units in the game because that's pretty much as relevant to the topic.

Anyway it has nothing to do with the Zook nerf. If the M20 was so blatantly OP during all this time I wonder why we only see Top players using USF faction since the last patch came out.

At the end, if M20 AI performance were too good, while not nerfing them instead of removing the zook?

The M20 changed, but Lieutenant tier did.

On release, LT tier had a BAR Lieutenant, .50 cals without the vet 0 AP, the M20 and an unusable, handbrakeless AAHT. If you went M20, it was your AT.

So it had some tools to fight back so it didn't get splattered. If it didn't, one light vehicle could all but hard counter the tier.


Lieutenant tier now has a Bazooka Lieutenant, Vet 0 AP .50 cals, the M20 and the Stuart. Everything in it can kill a 222.

With that, the bazooka was overkill, so they removed it.

Hum, Luch has tools to fight back with the raketen, SPsherk and Puma around (and mines) but hey it still has enough pen to kill a m20 or even fight equally vs a M8 and defend itself vs t70 or Stuart.
222 has tools to fight back light tanks, kill M20 and fight equally a m8 while having in the same tier pak40 and dual pzshrek + mines.

On release USF was all about superRM which by the time have been nerfed to what they were before the last patch. And the m20 what perfectly fine, so much that nobody was playing USF at high level. Didn't see anyone complain about it.
Then suddenly RM are buffed and the M20 is becoming too strong. I mean we're talking about a unit you need to whoop out the squad (2sec cd if in combat) and then use the bazooka through smoke that can miss or crew be killed or you can even lost the m20 while the squad is out.

In fact what make me think the balance team is full of crap atm is that this mechanism was probably one of the best balanced and interesting in the game. One that need some game awareness, micro, skill and a bit of luck to work. The thing that make you progress on your skill.
And they removed it because of themselve overbuffing the RM and not being able to accept it and correct it.
We're back into USF SuperRM's faction with zero diversity.

M20 Utility Car

The M20 has repeatedly been reported as a problem unit by top players, particularly in 1v1. The Bazooka has been removed, as it was seen to make the m20 too difficult to counter, given it already has mines, high speed, smoke, and potential Lieutenant bazooka support in its favour.

Build time increased by 10 seconds (M20 will now arrive 20 seconds slower when taking the above tech changes into account)
Crew no longer has a bazooka.

So +20 second on the build time and cannot defend itself vs anything superior to kubel. Now anyone can rush a 222 or Luch into it without much concern. Not even giving skirt native, nope. Plain hammer nerf.

Relic "balance" team's usual solution, dual nerf then everyone forget about the unit.

I was actually showing that the Pershing does not come significantly earlier than other faction's heavies, to disprove someone else claiming it did, so adding the Ambulance and Weapon Racks into that calculation would only further prove my point.

Indeed not since it usually comes the latest if you add the ambulance and one weapon/grenade unlock.
You said that for its timing you'll probably nerf it but from a realistic perspective or it come at the exact same time or later than the others. If atm the Pershing is overperforming that's not because of its timing.

I believe it has more to do with nerfs to USF opposition, than changes directly to USF. I could be wrong though, cause I also thought the same thing you're saying here

Don't remember reading Ostheer early game being nerfed in the patchnote.