I think the biggest issue is HVAP. it should be a toggle shell like the sherman HE (who, imo should be a timed shell) with distinct attributes specializing in heavy or medium armour with the opposite being vulnerable. There isn't necessarily an issue with one unit doing multiple jobs, the issue lies in doing them at the same time and with the most effectiveness of any, and also having literally any other trait you could possibly want piled into the same vehicle.... Separate modes for heavy and medium armour imo is the most basic route we could take for aligning the Jackson to a standard of balance without neutering the USF's ability to fight armour.
You'll just make the Jackson even more OP with this solution. Or to make both modes bad vs their respective targets.
The point is that it gives OKW (and OST, sometimes) another option to delay the M36. Other than doc-locked vehicles, Axis only has the JP4 at 60 range, and that comes fairly late. Buffing the puma slightly (0.5 -> 0.6 moving acc) gives it just enough strength to be able to hold off the M36 (when the puma has vet 1) for a while.
Also, the Puma's moving accuracy is really annoying to deal with. As it's been brought up, you basically need to 'stop and start' repeatedly for it to hit anything on the move. This would slightly improve the situation, without changing anything else.
This change won't entirely fix the M36's over performance, but at least its a step in the right direction.
Lol, at the end you're objective is clear: buffing the Puma. Jackson is just an excuse.
My suggested changes are intentionally designed to not make the puma a hard counter to the M36. They wouldn't even make the puma a soft-counter. At best, it would be a vague deterrent.
The setup:
There are no other units.
M36 at between 361 to 480hp, out of 640hp (56.4% to 75% hp)
M36 at vet 0
M36 front armor reduced to 110 from 130
Puma at 400 out of 400hp (100%)
Puma at vet 1
Puma moving accuracy mult from 0.5 to 0.6
The engagement:
Both are at max range, both moving at max speed (and stay this way the entire time).
The puma immediately lands it's vet 1 ability (45 muni), locking the M36 turret.
The puma moves out of the way of the M36's fixed turret
The puma continues to fire at the M36 for 15 seconds (duration of the ability) 15 seconds pass
The M36 can now fire on the Puma
The puma continues to fire on the M36 Another 32 seconds pass
There is a 50:50 chance as to which unit survives
You may confused my actual suggestion (above) with my terrible suggestion (below), which still only makes the puma a soft counter to the M36, at best.
What the point of it? Would it make you build a Puma to counter a Jackson? Would it make you rely on an -already built Puma to counter a Jackson?
Nice video. Agree with you but the campaign is definitively too easy, I've completed it in hard mode twice without investing a single point to improve my army. Part of it is probably because of the lack of interaction with the german forces counter-attacking and taking advanbtage from my mistakes
We'd all love to see Jackson nerfed so it is dedicated to counter heavy tanks. I mean not to have to spend 145 fuel for a unit that's only good vs tank so early in-game only to keep Pz4s back. Any USF player would love it.
But hey USF is stuck with AI Sherman and Scott doing the same job on top of riflemen and nothing for mid-game AT damage.
When you play Ostheer, you're pissed with the lack of light vehicle counter, when you play USF that's the same shit with medium tanks.
I brought PF as an example of unit starting weak and become better than other units with time.
If you want to debate PF and the success of their implementation we can do so in an appropriate thread. Imo their use in the latest tournament is an indication that there are issues with them thou.
No the problem is not that heavies are rushed.
The original problem they tried to FIX was:
Tech skipping
Peromance in large MOD
Part of the current problem is their shock value and toning down the vet 0 performance would go along way in reducing the Super dominance. One would have to vet his super heavy before getting his weapon worth and that would make rushing them a bad investment the same way that one will find himself in very difficult spot if he decided to spam only PF.
In addition the idea that unit should be balanced based only on their vet 0 performance as suggested by exsile is problematic.
And PF have seen their price reduced because they were too expensive. Obers have finally seen OKW T3 more affordable for their deployment.
And both unit are good at vet0, PFs have utility volks are lacking when hitting the field and this solely make for their initial price. In definitive every unit is designed to be better with vet, nothing new here.
Dedicated heavy AI or AT are not the problem since they have downside. Generalist are the problem, if even the Balance team could implement for any of them the amo switch as they did for the ISU, at least you know that Pershing or Tiger is only going to counter your tank or your infantry if you do a general push on it.
You are misinterpreting what I meant. I mean they are a hero unit in the sense they should be nurtured to reach their full potential, not that their presence should win games alone. Quite the opposite. I believe they should fight for their power. For example, if you took the is-2, and lowered its armour by say 50, and slashed its reload by say 50% and added it back through vet (spaced out) but didn't change its timing you would now have a weaker is-2 that, even if rushed is still less impactful but if it survives to the late game you will have a tough and reliable tank
That's not downside, that's plain nerf. Again I'm not against heavily nerf any heavy tank but we saw in the past the outcome of it, more whine and buff again.
But just as a reminder, you value a unit from its Vet0 perspective, nobody is going to play with a unit that requires you to vet it to 3 or 5 to be good. (but I'm personally fine with that).
Downside is what make you opponent use his brain to counter you without having to call his own heavy. Popcap increase is a good downside since it makes you lack something on your army composition to afford the heavy and gives your opponent room to overcome you by other ways than brute force.
Heavy tanks, being limited to 1 are more like a "hero" unit. They should be nurtured and grown across the late game and losing a vetted one should really hurt (more than just the resources)
Hero units are cancer. You can only balance them around themselves, if you like to play with hero units WC3 reforged will be there for you.
Personally I'd like to understand how we came to this situation where Heavy are a must have to expect to win a game. They aren't stock and should come with same level of downside as upside which isn't the case today.
Otherwise, if the idea is like you say "hero unit", make them stock so everyone can have them. At the moment they just shit over any other commanders that are balanced with downsides.
Well I mean, if we are overhauling them and reworking their vet we could (bear with me on this) rework their vet REQUIREMENTS too! If more power is gated behind vet their true potential would come from scaling and preserving them so they could be cheaper and hit a bit sooner. If we're talking about a rework any aspect can be reworked. Trying to fit performance to a fixed price point is where many balance issues reside.
if you reduce their vet requirement, that is not going to change them from their current state. they already vet quite easily thanks to their HP pool and good overall dps.
Each unit should value their price at vet0, remember Pfus? we went from expensive low efficient vet0 unit with incredible veterancy to priced correctly for vet0 unit with incredible veterancy.
Personally I don't like heavies, I'll not care at all if those were overnerfed and leaving the meta.
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