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Won't happen. It would be way too easy to punish a OKW player who went health truck in Lieutenant tier. You designed that Lieutenant tier for forward heath truck assassination.
Mech truck would have problems too.
I would never get Captain under this arrangement.
Sherman upgraded to Jumbo? So it gets a caste iron hull in the field? lol |
You are missing the point guys. OK let's call them "4 dudez with grease guns" if the name is an issue for you. These "dudez with grease guns" have good utility (repair, demo charge, worthless mines, build cache) and can be upgraded with Flamers. They do good DPS (48 at point blank).
So, these "dudez with grease guns" are good for flanking enemy's MGs, specially in urban maps (Ettlebruck, stalingrad, and semosiky to some degree). They have good synergy with rifles (Smoke and send them in) and you can use them late game for repairs without abandoning your tank.
When I said they are not Shock units, I was not comparing them to Soviet Shock troops. I meant that they are not designed to frontally assault the enemy. They are doctrinal units which perform well. Every time I play USF in ettlebruck (2v2) I call them in and they perform very well, specially their demo charge.
Do not argue about their name, units are performing based on their role, price, weapon etc. You do not balance a unit because its name dictates it to do something else.
"units are performing based on their role, price, weapon etc."
Apparently not. I thought an smg was supposed to beat an assault rifle at point blank range. Although I have been informed that sturmpios assault rifles have ascended to god tier and are now supposed to have great close range damage. This is my fault since I have been playing casually for a long time and I thought the game was still balanced around rock paper scissors (smgs, assault rifles, rifles, and then lmgs just wreck everything).
Unit role is assault engineers, by name and loadout and they suck at it. 280 mp is too much. |
Regardin' The dps and suppression output the .50cal provides probably the best mix of the HMG42 and the Maxim, however it suffers from low survivability, so make sure to always support it.
Even when supported it is ganked too easily by a rifle nade or a few ober mg34 bursts and then the USF player is out 280 mp.
Even when supported it just isn't viable right now imo. |
Sturmpios are more expensive, more expensive to reinforce, take longer to reinforce, and are the sole early damage dealer in OKW, while Assengies complemenent the much stronger rifles. Also, if you charge straight up into Conscripts without cover, you will usually drop one model before you get reasonably close and than its all in the hands of the RNG gods. Generally, Sturmpios will force Conscript retreats but they will not trade costeffectively short of an ambush. If you charge into DP Guards from long range, you will lose. Hard.
When it comes to AE, I concur with may of my predecessors here, they are situational as a combat unit. Good on constrained maps, questionable ie. on Crossing. However, the demos alone are worth the price of admission. Demos get squadwipes, at a very reasonable cost, and will force your opponent into a very careful harassing/cap behaviour.
"Assengies complement the much stronger rifles."
That is the problem, for 280 mp assengies suck compared to other things.
Unless you meant something else. From what I can gather your logic is that assengies shouldn't be buffed since USF has too many strong other units. Well that logic is what leaves USF with the boring rifle spam builds you see now.
Like the 280 mp USF mg. somehow that is fair since rifles are strong. But I'll leave that complaining for another post. (but for real USF mp costs are too high). |
They are assault ENGINEER. That is their purpose. They arent SHOCKTROOPs or infantry replacment.
Could you imagine Shock Troops repairing a Tank? Building Caches? Building Bunkers? Building Demos?
I think its your expectation of them as a combat unit rather then a Combat support unit.
Like Pathfinders for example. They are expensive and weak on their own. But put them behind Rifles and they shine.
Same goes with AE. You can have a squad that does significant damage up close through skillful play early. Before BARs/LMGs. And then at the late game you have a building clearing/Demo specialist that gets Repair bonuses.
They are primarily Engineers. Its like the idea of an Assault Yeoman. If if we gave Yeoman Great weapons and told them to assault their job is still primarily to do paperwork...
Screen/Smoke/Flank and AEs rock. Run straight at em! and they suck.
"Assault Engineer" strongly implies assaulting is happening, not combat supporting. and for 280 mp I expect better assaulting. Mediocre Engineers would be a better title.
Soviet engineers do everything you just said only cheaper.
I'm not expecting a charge across open ground to work but a point blank rush should be more rewarding since that is their niche.
So far despite everyone's posts I still think they need a cost reduction at their current performance or a survivability buff for their current cost. |
Sturmpioneers are a 320 Manpower CQB unit, which is more than 280 Manpower CBQ unit.
They could probably use a weapon nerf in exchange for a 5th member though.
Well I was under the impression that a unit with smgs in face slapping range should still win even with a cost difference unless it is a huge difference (pios vs rifles). Maybe that is incorrect.
Well if they are considered balanced they are extremely hard to use. |
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These guys are terrible. For 280 manpower they suck. Demo charges and flamethrowers are great. However, Soviets get this capability for a lot cheaper.
For 280 manpower Assault engineers should be able to do damage close in. They get destroyed by sturmpios even if they ambush them at point blank range with a flamethrower. When flanking volks assault engineers might do enough damage to make the flank worth it, typically they don't.
I would rather just have Soviet engies in the US forces. I don't care about history. k Relic? Thanks! |
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Maybe this can be the next guide. What vehicles can crush and when. I lost a game trying to crush 3 blobbed clumped up grens with a Jackson. Jackson was at full speed and then stopped to rotate around them. Jackson be like, "I would rather not, getting fausted 3 times and losing the game is the better option". |
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The factions are balanced around the current setup too much for more snipers. Soviet snipers could possibly be nerfed.
Each faction has pretty good mines except I wish the US mines weren't tied to the scout car since that thing goes down to the inevitable shrek blob so it is hard to do late game mines. The little mines don't cut it for me (are they still buggy?)
Soviet mines are awesome. Maybe a little op. nah changed my mind, they are fine.
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My build vs OKW is Rifle command, con, penal, M3, (Con or engy, or both) should have fuel for support, build it, AT gun, should come out quick enough to duel with a flak track. Plus your flame car should get you map control and slow their fuel anyways.
Then I build maxims to pin them and then penals and flame engys burn pinned stuff.
I haven't been building snipers against OKW since their large squad size mitigates the snipes. Plus OKW inf is cabbage until the late game anyways.
I think this build is safe for 1v1s and team games. It has worked for me. |
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