This issue with 2v2 balance (and i do alot of 2v2s both sides) is the fact that allies have way too many squad wipe capabilities, where as the germans have fewer and weaker vehicle equivalents.
Infantry Issues:
The USF Rifle received accuracy: at vet 3, the received accuracy of riflemen is nearly the same as a gren squad in heavy cover. This allows them to blob+Amove with 2 lmgs per squad and mow down anything without being punished for poor micro and tactics.
Brits having access to 2 Brens per squad and a received accuracy vet bonus. While its not as good as the USF infantry bonuses, the fact they can field 2 LMG's per squad, and have 5 men squads, gives them a far higher dps than Grens/volks, Especially when in cover.
Conscripts and penals - Cons are pretty balanced, but keep in mind they are 6 man squads. The reason Prostruppen is working in 1v1s atm is because of the squad survivalbility of a 6 man squad. Here the sovs take this advantage for granted while actually been rather versatile troops. Penals are currently too good... Yeah they cost alot, but they pay for themselves with the early map control they give. In 1v1s its not too bad, you can punish them with fast light vehicles, but in 2v2s your ally can cover for this weakness leaving no weakness to the allied synergy.
Now, if we look at these advantages, and look at the Axis starting infantry. Their squad seize and heavy weapons limit to 1 per squad makes them A - Less durable, and needing to group squads to beat down allies, they simply cant 1v1 squads early game giving the allies more map control and are way more vulnerable to being 1 shot by demo/mortar/artillery. and B - Less deadly.
In the early game as axis you are left to try and cling to a vp and a fuel like a homeless man to a marsbar until you hit T2 and get some squad wipe potential. The allies dominate the early game, in 2v2 especially. Sadly this is where 90% of game results are decided.
Tanks -
Now axis have the "best" tanks, they also have the worst repair options, especially the ostheer.
However no matter how good their tanks... Fireflies/Jackson + Soviet Market target in a 2v2 will basically own anything really fast. Imo Marked target should be removed from the game, its a stupid unrealistic ability that has been ruining game balance since the beginning that even continues after the plane is shot down. So this is what makes allies abit nuts in the tank department. Yes axis have better tank stats, But allies have better ways of dealing with them, better repairs and better faction synergy.
Artillery...
onestly i think Axis artillery across the board needs buffing. Or at least given more options.
Pwefers are pretty much confetti bombs, that kill maybe a few guys, and draw circles around the target.
Stukkas are good but fuel expensive which leaves you with no armor until mid-late game.
LeFE isnt bad, but still seems to be abit lack luster...
Where as the Land mattress is just... ugh, ridiculous for how cheap it is and is easily better than a Pwerfer. Infact its 1 volly is nearly the equivelant to 3 pwerfers after eachother.
The Callipoe is a decent unit. I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed or buffed... would just be nice if the axis had a similar unit.
Katyusha... Now alot of people say the pwerfer is better because of its alpha strike... But i disagree, The katy's AOE per shell is alot bigger. and even if you retreat as soon as you hear it fire, its second volly will plink your guys in the back of the head as the 2nd volly always seems to slightly overfire. (weapon teams have no chance). I wipe more squads using this than i ever have using a pwerfer except from the vanilla days when the pwerfer was worth its fuel cost.
To those who say the Pwerfer's alpha strike is better, what would you prefer? a quick slap in the face? or someone punching it 4 times? Its the same thing, especially when its fired at base trucks ect
I dont know the whole set up doesnt make sense... Axis having smaller squad sizes. Then Allies having the better artillery and squad wiping capabilities. As if the demo charges wernt enough to worry about. + the fact that the ostheer especially rely on weapon teams to fight rifle/penal blobs ect. Then to be hard-countered midgame by superior artillery options.
Theres a bunch more stuff like Demos, weapon team sizes, critical repair, maxim setup time.... the difference in effectiveness between things like a centuar > Ostwind, and so on.... But i think the core stats on the non-doctrinal units is the main issue.
|
If he's getting Calliope you should have tanks to counter it. If hes getting LM or any other indirect fire, you can afford indirect fire to counter it.
If hes using combined arms to defeat you then you use the same against him. Constantly harass his indirect fire to force them off the field. Deal with his blobs by using infantry with an mg behind them to suppress. Move when they barrage your mg. It's ntt rocket science here.
Also, you didn't quote the part where I talked about using sandbags to give your support weapons green cover. Believe it or not green cover reduces their received dmg by half allowing your weapon teams to survive barrages without a problem.
Unlike you it seems, im well aware how the game works. I know cover reduces damage somewhat.
Theres more to it than "if they use combined arms, then you should too". I mean way to state the bloody obvious...
My point is, and always was, the indirect fire options for allies are all way better. Meaning Yeah sure i can fight fire with fire... but the allied fire is a few hundred degrees hotter than the axis atm...
Which is why if you look at the top 10 in 1v1s. the allies have the highest ratios. And always have. |
Use support weapons like mgs and mortars.
Already established a land mattress/calliope/or even a 120 or US motar, rapes Axis weapon teams...
Not even including all the call-in AOE options. |
New brummbarr is your friend in this situation. Of course this leaves you vulnerable to comets but if you can have a stug panther elephant or some schreks backibg you up you'll have a good time bleeding him out. Brummbarr wipes and bleeds him mp a ton .
Am i the only one who seems to realize that to equalize against a 40 fuel unit, (the land Mattress) one needs to spend 140 fuel on a brummbar as a bit ridiculous. I agree that it works. But its basically a good summary of balance in this game atm... |
Honestly i think Axis artillery across the board needs buffing. Or at least given more options.
Pwefers are pretty much confetti bombs, that kill maybe a few guys, and draw circles around the target.
Stukkas are good but fuel expensive which leaves you with no armor until mid-late game.
LeFE isnt bad, but still seems to be abit lack luster...
Where as the Land mattress is just... ugh, ridiculous for how cheap it is and is easily better than a Pwerfer. Infact its 1 volly is nearly the equivelant to 3 pwerfers after eachother.
The Callipoe is a decent unit. I wouldn't say it needs to be nerfed or buffed... would just be nice if the axis had a similar unit.
Katyusha... Now alot of people say the pwerfer is better because of its alpha strike... But i disagree, The katy's AOE per shell is alot bigger. and even if you retreat as soon as you hear it fire, its second volly will plink your guys in the back of the head as the 2nd volly always seems to slightly overfire. (weapon teams have no chance). I wipe more squads using this than i ever have using a pwerfer except from the vanilla days when the pwerfer was worth its fuel cost.
To those who say the Pwerfer's alpha strike is better, what would you prefer? a quick slap in the face? or someone punching it 4 times? Its the same thing, especially when its fired at base trucks ect
I dont know the whole set up doesnt make sense... Axis having smaller squad sizes. Then Allies having the better artillery and squad wiping capabilities. As if the demo charges wernt enough to worry about. + the fact that the ostheer especially rely on weapon teams to fight rifle/penal blobs ect. Then to be hard-countered midgame by superior artillery options. |
Also consider OKW will bleed more if you go mech opening (no medic) and acces to panzershreck means you have to get 2 spio squads (300mp) because no sweeper vs Soviets is suicide.
In the past rakketen wasnt so important since OKW had shreckblob to fend off enemy armor but since that is removed OKW struggles vs armor, I would trade all the gimmick rakketen features (garrison, cloak, retreat) for a proper AT gun that doesnt can get one shotted by the T70 and its slow aimtime..
I do agree with Miragefla his proposal.
^ pretty much this.
Cant just give straight fuel and MP costs... gotta consider the layout of the factions and the usual trend of matches. |
Montargis Region....
Map balance...
Ok so those who start south have a major disadvantage... (No matter what faction)
- Due to the fact that the whole side wall is an inscaleabe cliff.
- North side has a nice easy destructible wall...
Faction balance... (Now here it gets abit stupid).
So the USF is the only faction that starts with tank traps... and this map has BOTH fuel points right next to eachother. So the USF can basically wall this area off early game guaranteeing them 100% fuel income for the early-mid game.
The Allies also have UKF emplacements... again gives them a huge advantage.
For anyone who knows how this game works... If Axis cannot secure at least one fuel point in the early-mid... theyre fucked.
Basically... if allies start on the north of this map. they win. Unless they are really new to the game, theyre gonna have a field day. |
Thread: OKW5 Aug 2016, 20:13 PM
Holy crap that was painful to read.
Balance wise, OKW is at a slight disadvantage atm, But ill take a look too and give you feedback. |
Not good way. This mean faster unit dying and wiping.
-% received accuracy from vetterancy is reward for unit overseeing and good micro.
Which Axis are not given....
-% accuracy rewards the USF mostly... Followed by the UKF....
It gives them the equivalent damage reduction of light cover... while stood in a bloody road. You cannot tell me this is right or balanced. It promotes skilless blob play and is what drives decent players away from the game because honestly? its a fkin joke...
If i was to suggest.... and if it actually happened.... that volks/grens were given 5 man squads 270MP cost, 2 LMG's and at vet 3 -50% received accuracy AND given nades, AND given smoke AND given an officer that can unsuppress them.... These forums would explode in allied fanboy rage...
Yet all im doing is describing Rifle squads lol. |
basically down to....
USF Mortar - Broken and screws up german weapon teams which are needed to halt the blobs.
USF Vet 3 50% recieved accuracy values (standing in a road with a blob, gives you the same damage reduction as grens in cover + light tank too good).
UK Bofors - Bit silly with the defensive commander...
and SU - Generally have the bests stock units... And all their stuff (even AT) has good anti-infantry capabilities except the SU85...
Put it this way... If grens/volks were made to cost 280MP 5 man squads, able to throw smoke, nades and given 2 LMG's per squad and a 50% received accuracy bonus at vet 3.... these forums would light up.
Yet im only describing USF infantry squads....
|