Buffing Ost or nerfing USF will mess up the balance between all of the factions. What is needed is to nerf OKW and then nerf USF a little to make ost more competitive.
Yeah like throwing a dog a bone or a scrap.Leave it..just forget the faction.Enjoy ur usf blobs and conspam and okw hate. |
They're fine, don't expect them to be shock troops. They're not units you want to make on all maps and against all matchups, just like you don't really want thompson paras on langres.
OKW and USF tech costs need fixing. And by fixing I mean they need to go up. Soviet and Ostheer tech costs are very similar, soviets just have more choice on skipping stuff.
Ostheer tech costs should be changed so buildings are the expensive part and the tiering costs are low, so skipping buildings would actually make sense. But don't pretend that ostheer T3 wouldn't already be viable.
I don't and they still suck.At 50 MP more shocks get 1.5 armor compared to this poor 1.13 recieved accuracy.They get 6 men,smoke for approach,35 reinforce cost to crippling 40 at 4men.Also pzgres are prone to 1 shot,unlike shocks.Pzgrens can't cut it as lategame advanced inf to help grens which is a serious problem for ost vs elite inf(especially in higher game modes).Against paras and shocks.Paras at 6 men and 28 reinforce......Grenadiers can't do anything even with LMGs vs 1919s.You need the totally risky mg42 or 3 grens(2 grens/flamer) to repel the shock .Allies have far easier time wiping these gren squads even with vet as they are 4 men and must stand still to fire,only wiping tool wehr really has is rifle ande and careful player will never fall for it.
On tech costs i am mainly speaking of MP cost disparity between ost and usf earlygame which forces ost to t2 tech for anti-light vehicle option even under severe pressure from rifle while usf gets free units to dogpile ost even more.
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I've had it with OKW. Its causing too many issues.
Every fucking game i must face blob after blob. (even in the top 200 AT 2v2 ladder)
Okw is not fun to fight or play. They require very little cerebral activity to play. The only choice you would ever make is too go for stuka or something else.
There always comes that point in the game where ur units just cant compete and u slowly lose as OKw units gain vet.
Haha i thought you were talking abt rifle blob and free units as wehr.Replace stuka choice with cpt or Lt.
Its good OPKW gives USF a taste of their own medicine.blob defeated by badder blob.Its poetic justice. |
+1
Its almost like trickle down balance. Fix OKW, then USF, Then Wher, and solv.
Wehr is definitely under preforming but in unit verity that are the most balanced and easy to understand. I don't like playing as germans but it is clearly visible that early wehr needs a fix and late game USF needs a fix.
Right USF has more balance issues than wehr?Now i have heard it..
Pzgrens,Popcornsprayer42,221car,tech costs -all these are OKW's fault.Nerf OKW and they will go away.Right man. |
Take 20MP off pioneer cost. Not worth the premium they cost now.
Make grenadiers buildable from HQ to mirror other factions
Reduce HMG42 setup time by 0.5 seconds
Give sniper 8 more hp.
Done. Ostheer issues are not mid or lategame, their issue is that they can be rushed in the first few minutes and pushed off the map. Unit selection is fine, unit performance is fine after you have several squads, but individually in the very early stages their units are lackluster. A single grenadier squad against a single con or riflesquad does nothing but bleeds the ostheer player unless the allied player picks a very bad engagement, yet that's the only engagement you can take in the first 4 minutes.
What about panzergrenadiers?How do you justify this 40 reinforce and 1.13 recieved accuracy at 4 men and 340 mp.
Also what about tech costs..even with ur changes t4 will remain inaccessible and tiger meta same. |
Grens/Scripts/Guards/Shocks/Penals/Pgrens
Vet 2 Increased Accuracy Nade Range etc
Vet 3 Surviability
Rifles
Vet 2
Surviability
Vet 3
Accuracy Nade Range etc.
Everybody but Rifles get bonuses to propel them from Vet 2 to Vet 3 much faster and become alot deadlier.
Rifles either start with veterancy commander,going to vet far sooner than grens.
Or get 1919 which will laugh at grenadiers even with lmgs.
Or get paras which will again laugh at grens while reinforcing at 28 mp kappa.
Not even bringing in light vehicle,or us one shotting options like motor/pack howie and sherman which ost don't have access to till tiger(which still can't one shot unless freak) |
They struggle early game against Rifles. Against Scripts just spam Grens back. Rifles cost more then Grens. So they should be better. And being better is MARGINAL. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Rifles need to pay for all their Side Grades and Grens do not. Rifles have a higher Upkeep. Rifles have a higher purchase cost. Rifles have crappier and backwards Vet. Vet 3 being Vet 2 and Vet 2 being Vet 3. Which is why Grens start to crush them mid game. Rifles give more XP and require more XP to vet. It goes on and on.
If they want to make Pgrens ELITE to face off against Paras be my guest. But Grens are damn damn good for 240MP I dont know why anyone would think otherwise.
If you want to adjust their early game then you then too need to adjust their mid game. They cant be stronger for cost in both....
Whats not happening is Grens are running around without Armor support until Tiger. Which imho is the problem. Like scripts to take on Elite Infantry they need armor support.
Midgame won't even matter if usf wins earlygame.Even in midgame USF gets free units while ur hampered by teching and need to fend of light vehicle which makes ur grens useless.They are far easily wiped lategame and paras with less reinforce or usf with 1919 makes grens helpless.They also tend to flee enmasse from shocks unless u have 3.Against cons earlygame u can counter spam with spam for a while until they hit critical mass.Then they will just close distance and u can't stop them,ur mg42 is useless and at close range ur dps is poor.Molotovs and ppshs/mortars will force u to be moving and ur more susceptible to wipe.
Pzgrens are squishy manpower sink. |
Sure and make them cost 280MP. They can compete with full health rifles at long range. And surpass them with LMGs and at Vet 2 just clown Rifles at range.
Grens arent the problem. MG42? Sure. But Grens are fantastic for cost once they get rolling. But if they want to make them more expensive then why not?
Grens are bad earlygame because they struggle vs both opponent basic infantry when spammed-both riflespam and conspam.Midgame they are very good once they get veterancy and lmgs.Lategame again outmatched once enemy fields elite infantry which they mostly can't counter and even ur vet grens are 4 man squads which are easily wiped. |
Can we all just chill for a moment?!
Everybody keeps forgetting how, only few months ago everyone was screaming "Axis so OP, game is totally shit, Relic are Axis Fanboys". Now its the other way around.
Balancing a game with 4 factions, of which 2 have come in to an allready pretty balanced game, takes time, just wait for the next patch, we have just gotten back from holiday.
I don't think they will change anything much for ost in next patch.Haven't bothered to acknowledge factions existence in the last 6 months or so,except when they need to nerf something. |
Not really.
OKW is batshit OP.
Ost struggles against USF.
You need to nerf OKW as hard as it takes, then you'll be able to adjust USF vs ost and it will also allow soviets vs OKW to be a balanced matchup instead of "hold to late game and slaughter everything with red star" scenario.
Sov vs ost matchup is pretty much alright and nothing changed here since WFA start except some soviet minor nerfs.
ALL WFA balance problems start and end with OKW.
Wrong.OKW has nothing to do with shit pzgrens,tech costs,popcornsprayer42,fartcannoncar221.
And ost is struggling vs conspam as well,not just usf.Just less stark than vs rifles.
Your laughable attempt at trying to blame OKW for pathetic ostheer is amusing. |
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