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Right, so time to set this thread forward:
It does not matter what RTS you are playing, APM is an impact characteristic of game play, However there is no direct correlation between APM and balance unless the discrepancy between two factions is extreme and commonly viewed. Back in the days when Replay analyzer worked, I did a short study on my own about APM to better improve my game play. I down loaded many replays and looked at all of my own. What I saw was the better players tend to have a higher APM (that is pretty normal) but they were not too much higher than average or above average players.
I was on my way to the top 100 over the summer when I had more time. I played against many up the upper tier players, on auto match and in the tournaments I participated in. I was killed by any of the top 20, but their APM's were all over the place. One thing I did notice was the general range was around 80-100 average apm with notable exception being Cataclaw, who averaged 160. These top players vs each other all the time and the matches are still close, and they win or lose. You can see that the apm is not terribly high (this is gold apm in starcraft II) but having a higher apm does not drastically lend advantage.
The reason for this is that while APM is important to an RTS, it is only one of the few determining characteristics of game play. Each trait adds another dimension in determining quality of the player, but some are weighted more than others and not all RTS's have the same.
For example: In Starcraft II APM has a much bigger impact because of the income system, as well as the way units react. In coh2 units do not chase unless told to meaning you can leave units in a place without locking them in a hold position, and they will still participate in the game. This means while babysitting your units is important, you do not have to always micro them constantly (a good example is an hmg, it will participate perfectly fine after positioned). As for the income system, because coh2 is not mining based there is no worker micro or worker harassment, meaning there is technically less to worry about and does have a rather large APM impact.
Now on to other things; Coh2 does not prioritize APM as a direct game impact. What I mean by Prioritize is that you cannot win a coh2 game on apm. In Statecraft II the lower level players are just learning builds, unit comps, and building their apm. The best plan in the world will not see you to victory if your opponent doubles your apm and just simply out tasks you. In coh2 that is not the case. add all the APM you want, walking into an ambush due to the true line of sight and you'll still loose. This is not to say that APM does not matter, surely it dictates multi tasking and grenade dodging as well as other factors. But where SC II you can look up a build on the internet and roll some one just by having 200 apm due to the cook book nature of SCII, in coh2 you'll die to a better positioned army and unit comp because game sense and positioning is weighted far more in quality of players.
my point is that while apm is important, there are other traits of this game that matter more in determining victory, and though it is important from what I saw there was not a drastic difference between axis and allies in APM. It was actually pretty random. |
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Personally I think the only nerf it could fairly receive is a time duration. Even if you cannot get shots off at the tank that is marked, the threat of loosing the heavy is enough to just keep the tank back for an extended period of time. Something that while it is not terribly noticeable in 1v1s is pretty devastating when its heavies vs heavies. Assuming everyone is a meta abusing player, simply marking a tank puts the axis team at a huge disadvantage |
there are already killing mobs in form of OKW .... so whats the problem ?
Because sprinting blobs are way more terrifying and deadly than the current ones.
Anyone remember the pgren, airborne, and ranger vcoh blob? |
 Pls dont put them in multi player like that, we dont need the sprinting death mobs of vcoh back, there are already plenty of blobbing issues |
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The Volks gren change is a solid suggestion which has come up a few times (I think it is the best one).
The Soviet change I would not agree with. Basically if you made Soviet stuff cheaper, It would prolong the game but it would not fix the current problems because Axis still has a huge upper hand. Axis would still wipe through worse units and unit comps, making things cheaper would just allow Soviets to re purchase them to slow their demise.
No amount of making things cheaper late game will solve the problem as long as the units population, and the game population remains the same. The only way you can have cheaper, worse units and stay on par is to either increase the pop cap or decrease universally the population for each unit |
Seriously ... It's so fucking annoying to have a tank chase and then die when you are microing across the map for a second.
Some one does not know how the commands in an RTS work
So here is some enlightenment:
A unit will not leave the spot it is unless given a command. If you give them a command they will execute it to the best of their ability until the die, are given another command, or the command cannot be done. So a tank that is sitting around cannot and will not move unless you order it to attack another.
So the lesson to be learned here is that if you tell your unit to start firing at another unit, make sure you remember to re micro it because it will pursue the unit unless told otherwise, your unit dies, or the enemy unit is no longer in vision (this can be because they died as well). |
I'm still voting napalm  |
A new OKW strategy I have been facing is Sturms building the damn Reinforced Steel Barricade (OKW barbed wire) around VPs and fuel points or across narrow access points. The dumb thing about this wire is that the Engineer wire cutters can't cut it...
The stuff can't be shot at once fully built and even a grenade just barely damages it. It says on the description the only way to get through it is to crush it with a heavy vehicle...
Which means if you go for an Allies strategy that doesn't rush a vehicle in 7 minutes then the OKW can wire you off until you build and divert a vehicle over to the wire to get rid of it.
I find that early game and even late game doing this can totally gimp infantry play because they can just cover points or routes on their flanks with the stuff and I HAVE to divert a vehicle over to get through it.
Otherwise I get funneled right into OKW Shrek blobs, Obers, and Flak HT/HQ. This strat is really effective and really annoying.
Any thoughts on maybe tying this super barbed wire to the wire cutter upgrade for Sturms? Requiring them to get that upgrade before they can build this BS wire.
Or increasing the build time of this super wire so they can't as easily spam the stuff all over the map?
Their placement time for it seems really fast.
Yes I know wire is supposed to halt infantry but the other wire can be countered with grenades or wire cutters, but not the OKW super wire, you need a tank to roll over it to get rid of it or expensive munition abilities.
Thoughts, opinions?
You can direct fire at the wire now. This problem used to be way worse back when you could not. Really if you see lots of wire going down you just need some dedicated clearing. Tanks and light vehicles clear them pretty quickly, so the only really impact time for the wire is early on. Ways of dealing with the wire is applying pressure to the sturm pios if you can, the wire does not build incredibly fast so if the Sturm pios are under fire a lot or always retreating they cannot build up tons of it.
I would not be opposed to an increase in build time though |
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What a terrible pole. Aerohank has it right, StuG is great. |
Actually it's PZ4 spamming, don't know why.
Because P4 spamming was never bad, it was just overshadowed by more efficient call in meta lol |
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