Fragmentation bombing is too powerful

IMHO:
USF - increase cost to 140-150
OST - drastically decrease AT ability, like USF bomb run have, make wider AOE, while make that units could be killed if were caught in central area of ability. Like Stuka Dive bomb work. Make time of starting in-line with other bomb runs. Cost like USF have.
SU - increase damage slightly and give engine damage like regular snare did.

What would people think of this change: Instead of adding a delay, make it so the bombing run has to start from your base. That would probably add enough time on small maps that you would have a chance to react. Maybe compensate by making the AOE wider since you can't align it the way you normally would.

What would people think of this change: Instead of adding a delay, make it so the bombing run has to start from your base. That would probably add enough time on small maps that you would have a chance to react. Maybe compensate by making the AOE wider since you can't align it the way you normally would.

How you suppose to change direction of ability? Plane start maknig rotations? IT still OP when near to your base and useless near to enemy base. Better have one time for all bombing runs.

I agree. Plane speed should be standardized.

I just can't believe what I'm reading here. The difference in price is significant. Adding any delay would need to mean the price reduction of the bombing run. Still, we have a situation that once again an ability that really works and requires skill to make it useful is asked to be nerfed. At the same time an extremely potent and cheap ability (cluster bombs) is described as much less efficient that it really is. Incredible. Just totally l2p issue. Just use cluster bombs predicting where the enemy will try to dodge and you wipe many more squads than with fragmentation run. Top players predict such things and that's why cluseter bombs are so good in their hands. Same with bombing runs -players complaining are just unaware how difficult it may be to aim this ability. And you have to be really clumped to wipe more than one squad. With clusters you normally wipe a few or they are left with so little health that even a fart finishes them off. Or first you damage them a bit and finish off with clusters. I totally disagree with the perpective that fragmantetion bombs need to be changed. First make cluster bombs more expensive.

I just can't believe what I'm reading here. The difference in price is significant. Adding any delay would need to mean the price reduction of the bombing run. Still, we have a situation that once again an ability that really works and requires skill to make it useful is asked to be nerfed. At the same time an extremely potent and cheap ability (cluster bombs) is described as much less efficient that it really is. Incredible. Just totally l2p issue. Just use cluster bombs predicting where the enemy will try to dodge and you wipe many more squads than with fragmentation run. Top players predict such things and that's why cluseter bombs are so good in their hands. Same with bombing runs -players complaining are just unaware how difficult it may be to aim this ability. And you have to be really clumped to wipe more than one squad. With clusters you normally wipe a few or they are left with so little health that even a fart finishes them off. Or first you damage them a bit and finish off with clusters. I totally disagree with the perpective that fragmantetion bombs need to be changed. First make cluster bombs more expensive.

Price is irrelevant if it's op. KT and JT were very much op and got nerfed.
Air supremacy got nerfed
Obers got nerfed
Balance is what we are striving for and it doesn't matter if it's a 500mu ability if it's fuckin op.

The state of another ability (especially when calling op) doesn't excuse the state of one in discussion. If you feel cluster bombs are OP make a thread, don't use it to excuse frag bomb

it's not op point, we would see it a lot more if it was , like cluster mines

Price is irrelevant if it's op. KT and JT were very much op and got nerfed.
Air supremacy got nerfed
Obers got nerfed
Balance is what we are striving for and it doesn't matter if it's a 500mu ability if it's fuckin op.

The state of another ability (especially when calling op) doesn't excuse the state of one in discussion. If you feel cluster bombs are OP make a thread, don't use it to excuse frag bomb

IMO it is totally not op. I used cluster bombs example to illustrate that similar abilities exist and are cheaper. Those boms are supposed to kill. You have reaction time. Sometimes it is just better to move to the side rather than retreat. It is very similar to penalty shots in football. The goalkeeper must just just dive left or right and has a chance to save the goal if he is lucky. Same here if you predict that the opponent will retreat you draw a line of bombs on his retreat, butbifnyourbopponent moves left or right instead of retreating they won't die.

IMO it is totally not op. I used cluster bombs example to illustrate that similar abilities exist and are cheaper. Those boms are supposed to kill. You have reaction time. Sometimes it is just better to move to the side rather than retreat. It is very similar to penalty shots in football. The goalkeeper must just just dive left or right and has a chance to save the goal if he is lucky. Same here if you predict that the opponent will retreat you draw a line of bombs on his retreat, butbifnyourbopponent moves left or right instead of retreating they won't die.

Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.

Just standardize the plane speed, the bomb drop rate and add infantry damage to PTAB/remove tank damage from fragmentation bomb. And you're good to go.

How you suppose to change direction of ability? Plane start maknig rotations? IT still OP when near to your base and useless near to enemy base. Better have one time for all bombing runs.

Set it up like the Major's recon from USF. The plane flies out from your base to the point that is going to get hit. I'd like it if all of the bombing runs had the same time but don't know how to do that.

What would people think of this change: Instead of adding a delay, make it so the bombing run has to start from your base.

That wouldn't change much about the problem of the effectiveness of the ability mostly depending on where it's called in. That would make it decent/good on a 1v1 map like Crossroads, but that would make it terrible on a map like Red Ball Express or Lanzereth Ambush where the base sectors are as far away from each other as they can be.

In any case, the ability is simply a bit broken by design, and there's no way to fix that without a major overhaul (which I'm not sure if we'll ever be able to do). What we can do though is adjust some maps to fix the most glaring issues; for example extending the base sector on Crossroads so the retreat path road next to the base can't be instabombed.

Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.

Still their aoe is so large that they wipe well. Just predict where the enemy will move after they see the smoke. Just like I wrote, if you make bombing run cheaper you can make it drop later. It's all about cost vs result mechanics.

Whatever the bombing run, the fact it comes faster on the edges is problematic. There should have been something we could adjust where the arriving of a bombing run would be the same across the map.

But I'm guessing code wise there isn't such a solution?

it's not op point, we would see it a lot more if it was , like cluster mines

Ability or unit can be OP and "dormant" by the fact that doctrine its in isn't used much due to meta.

As snek would bring up, remember DSHK when maxim was spammed? It took its place instantly after maxim was nerf slaughtered.

Then what's the argument,

it's faster than much more powerful abilities, but less deadly even than some less expensive abilities

the only compelling argument that this thread brought is that PATB is bugged and deals low damage to tanks, nothing about the frag bombs

How is it less deadly than the cluster bombs, which arrive more slowly, and their wipe potential is pure RNG?

A unit can stand in clusters and explode or it can stand in them and take a third.

Any infantry unit beneath a frag bomb line is dead, no if ands or buts. The map edge / map middle is a big deal, but in its best case scenario, frag bombs can outright delete anything you want, quite often immediately outside the enemy's base if you happen to have sight from their cutoff.



Back on the topic of design. I just want to know why the plane dropping the bombs is even required? If the plane is purely aesthetic why not have the bombs be a timed air drop and a plane pass just be a cosmetic thing that happens?

Why the modeled plane at all? Just so we can add more plane crash RNG to the maps, which is clearly what we want more of? It's not like anybody is ever looking upwards in a game of CoH2 to see it.

cause u can use aa

cause u can use aa

Actually, you can't against single pass planes, they will ALWAYS deliver their payload and then they can be shot down.

This is why for CoH3, all single pass planes should arrive to the map loitering first and then you have like 60/90s to order where you want them to strafe/bomb.

This will let AA do their job and standardised payload times deliveries.