Fragmentation bombing is too powerful

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 12:51 PMelchino7

This is why for CoH3, all single pass planes should arrive to the map loitering first and then you have like 60/90s to order where you want them to strafe/bomb.

This will let AA do their job and standardised payload times deliveries.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2019, 21:44 PMKatitof

No, they don't wipe, it was made sure after it got heavily nerfed after introduction, unless you keep heavily wounded squads on field, whatever inf gets hit by frags is dead regardless of health.

They also arrive slower.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 14:42 PMFreestyler1992

They still wipe like crazy, are cheap beyond believe and drop very fast. Stop defending this obvious bullshit ability.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 14:46 PMKatitof

Update your game, you still seem to be on the version when the ability just was released.
Alternatively, stop expecting 10% health squads to survive anything.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 12:36 PMKatitof

Actually, you can't against single pass planes, they will ALWAYS deliver their payload and then they can be shot down.

Jump back to quoted post11 Oct 2019, 23:47 PMGrumpy

Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 17:08 PMachpawel

You really sure it is 8 seconds?

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 07:26 AMSander93

That wouldn't change much about the problem of the effectiveness of the ability mostly depending on where it's called in. That would make it decent/good on a 1v1 map like Crossroads, but that would make it terrible on a map like Red Ball Express or Lanzereth Ambush where the base sectors are as far away from each other as they can be.

In any case, the ability is simply a bit broken by design, and there's no way to fix that without a major overhaul (which I'm not sure if we'll ever be able to do). What we can do though is adjust some maps to fix the most glaring issues; for example extending the base sector on Crossroads so the retreat path road next to the base can't be instabombed.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 18:04 PMGrumpy

I made a video today using Fraps instead of trying to guess it by counting. The first butterfly bombs hit a little faster, somewhere between 6 and 7 seconds. The main group hit a second or two later so I think I was missing the first impacts and kept counting until the mass of them started hitting.

Also, the Fragmentation bombing run was actually a little slower than I was thinking. When watching the video and not trying to control 2 computers, it looks like more in the range of 5-6 seconds. The time difference between the two wasn't as great as I thought it was. The fragmentation run has a smaller delay but the plane seems to move slower. That makes it OP on Alliance and mediocre on anything bigger. It needs about a 1-1.5 additional second delay and a plane that flies much faster.

The edge of small maps like Alliance really is a problem. The only way I could avoid a wipe was if I had the units already selected and moved it on the warning sound. Even then, it would be badly damaged. If you have to select the unit and move it, it doesn't have enough time to get out of the AOE.

Alternatively, they could do something to it like they did to the cluster bombs. I hear the plane for the cluster bombs but not sure they're actually dropped by the plane. It may just be a timer. I'd be fine with a timer for all skill planes.

Also, just to be clear, I don't have a problem with how hard the Fragmentation run hits, only its timing on small maps.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 13:46 PMStug life

LOL NO, 60 SEC DELAY ?

u know the enemy might move form where u want him to be

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 20:13 PMSkysTheLimit

He's saying you would call in a plane that loiters the whole map, and THEN you call in the strike with the red flares just as always

Wouldn't change reaction time that much, only gives you a chance to shoot plane down before it starts it's approach to strike

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 21:45 PMelchino7

This would also unify payload delivery for all maps and all modes.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 18:34 PMachpawel

Lots of respect for all the effort put in testing, and wow wow wow from me (wish everybody could check stuff so meticulously)

One way or another - the question remains - do we want those off maps to be counterable by repositioning, partially counterable (like damage but no wipe when you react correctly), or just completely couterable if you react as expected? TBH I don't know. To me, they are similar - typical asymetrical balance and I would just look at costs - make it more or less expensive so that it is fair (still, I'd feel that it might mean making carpets more expensive - if they are used right, they will wipe team weapons without ability to dodge)

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2019, 21:45 PMelchino7

Yep, exactly like that. This would also unify payload delivery for all maps and all modes.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2019, 00:49 AMGrumpy

Thanks! I made a couple videos that you can watch. I didn't want to make anything long so I tried to start recording as soon as the airstrike was called. Maybe add a second to the timer to get the actual times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a73lCQS5_M0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXZGlUlDKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7tpgg1lDbI

When I was posting this, I came across one of my old videos from back when the Panther was king.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WDTuMldkgU

(I dive with two Panthers, kill a Pershing, Jackson, Katy, 2 ambulances, and a major. I would've got out without losing the Panther but hesitated in the middle of the dive and took one too many AT shots. Don't think you could get this good of a result today.)

Nice

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2019, 00:56 AMGrumpy

\

Wouldn't the flight time still vary? Or would you just speed it up so that it takes about the same time to go across Steppes as Alliance?

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2019, 01:08 AMStug life

So in 2 test u made it literally at the edge of the map, while for usf u put them near a shoot blocker where u can literally see it blocking and saving the crew (leaving aside u used infantry instead of at gun)

If u wanted ti bring a point u were not successful with such cherry picked test

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