Fragmentation bombing is too powerful

To me they are too similar to change anything - only price could be adjusted. IMO clusters should be more expensive.

Frag run OP when used near of border or near with base. While clusters always have equal time of work. In 1vs1 frag run will be better. While in bigger maps - cluster bombs.

The same issue as with il-2 bombing run, if you hitted good - result exellent, but frag run much easier with that. Frag also very good against garrisons, while in cluster you could survive in building. You even could kill damaged vehicles with frag run - i losted some su-85 when they caught under frag run.

Agreed. maybe just this buildin vs clusters I wouldn't be so sure.

Frag run OP when used near of border or near with base. While clusters always have equal time of work. In 1vs1 frag run will be better. While in bigger maps - cluster bombs.

both give very little time to react with run being more edge map depended. I see only problem with clusters tbh. Their price makes them too spammable. With bombing run you risk a lot of munitions wasted if you don't draw that line right predicting where units will be in a few seconds.

Team weapons have 0 chance to escape this ability on map edges. It's the same with USF butterfly bombs

I noticed elchino is looking at this thread. If you have time, could you show how fast fragmentation hits versus IR pathfinder, IL2, and lastly PTAB using cheat mode?

I was not checking the thread, it sometimes get bugged. Other times i might be but it's just that i open several tabs and check hours later.

Nah, someone else can do so.

maybe someone like OP since he brought the argument with no proof, wish people did not have flat earther mentality in this forum

I'm going to make a video on this since effen wanted elchino too, and he said no. Check back later.

EDIT: Here you go!



So my take is basically, yeah they're slightly better than IL2 PTAB and precision bombing run. I'd say they're worse than M83 cluster mines and maybe could use another half second added to arrival time. M83s need the nerf first though, and really need it in the cost department. IL2 is 20 muni more and is great vs tanks as well so it is very much balanced if not slightly strong IMO. PTAB are honestly pathetic for their description and cost to power. I didn't test PTABs vs infantry, but if they're only good vs armor then they need a buff.

I'm going to make a video on this since effen wanted elchino too, and he said no. Check back later.

EDIT: Here you go!



So my take is basically, yeah they're slightly better than IL2 PTAB and precision bombing run. I'd say they're worse than M83 cluster mines and maybe could use another half second added to arrival time. M83s need the nerf first though, and really need it in the cost department. IL2 is 20 muni more and is great vs tanks as well so it is very much balanced if not slightly strong IMO. PTAB are honestly pathetic for their description and cost to power. I didn't test PTABs vs infantry, but if they're only good vs armor then they need a buff.

Thanks!

I tested it also before I saw your reply. I tested on a 2v2 map and came to a similar conclusion. I didn't use cheat mode but tested it with two computers. For the fragmentation bomb, you could avoid it in the center if you retreated on sound but not wait for the marker. On the edge of a map, even retreating on sound will cause the unit to take damage. The time to impact for fragmentation is 2-3 seconds from skill use on the edge and about an additional second in the center of a small map. Had I tested it on Steppes like Shadowlink did, it would've added another second or two. It's probably why I don't notice fragmentation a lot except when playing 2v2's. I think it needs a second or so added to the time. The difficulty in that is that would make it slow on large maps. The area is only about half the size of the cluster bombs. The damage it does on a successful hit is fine, not any different that most off-maps.

The butterfly bombs were about 8 seconds to impact. They will kill a lot more units if you don't notice, but it compensates by giving you a lot longer to dodge. I rarely get hit with those but occasionally see someone get hit at their Battlegroup HQ and lose a ton of models.

The PTAB will kill a few models but doesn't normally wipe squads or anything. I can post a replay of that if you want to see it but its over an hour. I tried it a bunch of different ways to see if there was some way that it wasn't pathetic, but after trying all different sorts of targeting, couldn't find a way that it wasn't pathetic. I tested it on Minsk pocket and was getting about 9 seconds from smoke to impact if the bombing runs went along the long axis of the map.

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Just replace it with the Recon support company Butterfly bombs.
After all, the Whermacht used them first and in large quantities

Kappa

Idint know what happened to ptab, it used to shred heavy like nothing, I didn't see any nerf tho in the patch notes

Here,

Maybe it's bugged ?

Maybe it's bugged ?

It calls "overnerfed". It got huge revamp in past, when it killed almost everything from infantry to tanks and buildings. Your video from these times. Now, as you can see, it deals the same damage to tanks as frag run, while slower to start and without any potent AI. But have bigger AOE)

No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti

I blame it on the spaghetti code as always

No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti

I blame it on the spaghetti code as always

I don't think the PTAB run was touched at all, it deals more or less 1/2HP damage of heavies depending on RNG bomb scatter. It's the same as in the vid you posted. PTAB is better when used against large vehicles as they get hit with more bombs. It kills inf very unreliably mostly causing moderate HP damage, but that's ok, as it's mostly an AT run.

The point that people are missing in the comments above is that Butterfly Bombs don't hit all at once so if you are lucky you run over the area that is not exploding right now. In working principle it's similar to OST Light Arty Barrage. First shells/bombs come early, but they don't come all at once. It saturates the area over time. If you are lucky, you can run through Butterfly Bombs with some damage taken, but you won't get wiped, meanwhile any infantry caught within Frag Bombing Run are dead, no exceptions. Also with the Frag Bombing Run you have to see the plane to identify the direction in which you should move your infantry/teamweapons. In the test that Shadowlink performed, the AT guns were ordered to move when the smoke appeared, even before the direction of bombing was known. Was the plane coming from SL base, these AT guns would have been wiped.

I appreciate the testing done, I don't like how Butterfly Bombs are implemented but per abilities used, I have suffered and caused significantly more and more meaningful wipes with Frag Bombing Run than with Butterfly Bombs.

like ? cause tournament say otherwise, leaving aside the muni cost

No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti

I blame it on the spaghetti code as always

Reminder that the changelog with 6 pages is missing like 2 patches. For some reason they left the notes for the final release in the preview threads. December/Commander revamp.

No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti

I blame it on the spaghetti code as always

No, it was a ninja nerf that never made it to the patch notes. It can still take about 1/2 health of a heavy if it processes perfectly. It used to wipe infantry like crazy. The rest of the doctrine was changed and those changes made it into the patch notes but not the bombing run change. The doctrine used to have salvage which was replaced by the howitzer.

It used to wipe mediums. I don't remember if it would wipe a full health heavy but if not it would a almost full health heavy. The problem with it was probably more the speed because you had a hard time avoiding it on the edges of a map.

It needed a speed nerf because you couldn't get MG's out of buildings in time and it would take down most buildings. Instead it was nerfed into oblivion.

Here are youtube videos from the old bombing run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pfm6hyaHdg#t=3148

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pfm6hyaHdg#t=2049

I'd put frag as the best bombing run in the game its the most versatile, comes in fast and hard as well as having a pretty wide area. I wouldnt nerf the power though, just make it a smidge slower

best bombing run in the game used by all top player in tournament .... wait a minute that's the usf one

best bombing run in the game used by all top player in tournament .... wait a minute that's the usf one

But it don't meaning that PTAB don't need changes. PTAB should become normal ability and do its work.