Fragmentation bombing is too powerful
10 Oct 2019, 18:37 PM
#1
Posts: 320
It just wipes shit too quickly and reliably, please add delay to the plane. If you replace the ability with Tank hunter AT bombing that would also be a good enough nerf.
10 Oct 2019, 18:39 PM
#2
Posts: 1217
Not really OP. Just very strange design with little time to react on map edges.
10 Oct 2019, 18:44 PM
#3
Posts: 320
Not really OP. Just very strange design with little time to react on map edges.
Little time to react + easy to wipe with = OP. It has wide and long AOE, kills any infantry on the way and stuns vehicles, kills LVs.
10 Oct 2019, 19:06 PM
#4
Posts: 1954
Not really OP. Just very strange design with little time to react on map edges.
On the edge of the map, you can't get out of the run even if you retreat right away. AT guns also can't get out.
10 Oct 2019, 19:46 PM
#5
Posts: 4928
Little time to react + easy to wipe with = OP. It has wide and long AOE, kills any infantry on the way and stuns vehicles, kills LVs.
On the edge of the map, you can't get out of the run even if you retreat right away. AT guns also can't get out.
Maybe impossible without changing the maps or making the ability underpowered when not used in a map corner.
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10 Oct 2019, 19:51 PM
#6
Posts: 1954
It just wipes shit too quickly and reliably, please add delay to the plane. If you replace the ability with Tank hunter AT bombing that would also be a good enough nerf.
Replacing it with the PTAB bombing run would basically remove it from the game. There was a long discussion on this in the thread on Tank Hunters recently. The PTAB takes around 9 seconds to hit once the red smoke is down. Damage depends on the size of the tank, but seems to be 1/4 to 1/2 of the health of the tank, with 1/4 damage being far more common than 1/2 health damage. In the little bit of testing that I did, it didn't wipe a full health squad.
I couldn't find the change in the patch notes, but remember when it would almost one-shot a Tiger, and would wipe infantry in a large area. Some of the videos of that are still on YouTube. The old skill was a little over the top. It would almost kill an OKW truck in one shot.
I don't have a problem with the power of the Fragmentation bombing run. It should hit hard, but every other bombing run (besides the PTAB) has about a 3 second delay that seems to be missing.
10 Oct 2019, 20:00 PM
#7
Posts: 1954
Maybe impossible without changing the maps or making the ability underpowered when not used in a map corner.
I'm pretty sure it hits faster than anything else, with the possible exception Pathfinder Arty. At least with Pathfinder Arty, it's tied to a range of 30-40 from the Pathfinder so you know to watch for it. Fragmentation bombing can hit anywhere. On maps like Rzhev the pathing can be so bad in spots that you can't get out of the bombing run even in the middle, particularly the right side of middle.
10 Oct 2019, 20:12 PM
#8
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I think frag is fine because I look at IL2
10 Oct 2019, 20:38 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I think frag is fine because I look at IL2
What about IL2?
It has nothing comparable.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Oct 2019, 20:52 PM
#10
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
What about IL2?
It has nothing comparable.
?? They're both off maps bomb strikes. The difference is frag is good vs infantry and stuns tanks, while IL2 kills both.
10 Oct 2019, 20:57 PM
#11
Posts: 4474
fixed for ya
?? They're both off maps bomb strikes. The difference is frag is good vs infantry and stuns tanks, while IL2 kills ALL.
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10 Oct 2019, 21:36 PM
#12
Posts: 711
?? They're both off maps bomb strikes. The difference is frag is good vs infantry and stuns tanks, while IL2 kills both.
It costs much more and have more time to start compare to frag. Frag much easier to realise due more distance and AOE, than bombing run. Frag not only stun tanks, but also damaged them pretty strong for "light frag bombs", especially t-3476 and su-85. While 4 50kg bombs don't stun at all...
Dive stuka more closing to IL-2 bombing run neither frag run.
10 Oct 2019, 21:40 PM
#13
Posts: 1351
What about cluster bombs form US? They wipe even more than fragmantation bombs and are cheaper.
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10 Oct 2019, 21:43 PM
#14
Posts: 593
?? They're both off maps bomb strikes. The difference is frag is good vs infantry and stuns tanks, while IL2 kills both.
frag is way to fast and will super own all static units or unwatched units. they are not the same thing. il2 is way slower and u will never hit infantry or tanks like the frag. il2 is useful when using vs stunned/buttoned tanks, or fortifications.
10 Oct 2019, 21:44 PM
#15
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
What about cluster bombs form US? They wipe even more than fragmantation bombs and are cheaper.
No, they don't wipe, it was made sure after it got heavily nerfed after introduction, unless you keep heavily wounded squads on field, whatever inf gets hit by frags is dead regardless of health.
They also arrive slower.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Oct 2019, 21:46 PM
#16
Posts: 1954
I noticed elchino is looking at this thread. If you have time, could you show how fast fragmentation hits versus IR pathfinder, IL2, and lastly PTAB using cheat mode?
10 Oct 2019, 21:48 PM
#17
Posts: 711
What about cluster bombs form US? They wipe even more than fragmantation bombs and are cheaper.
It don't damage tanks so well as frag run. It also not give you guarantee wipes (but have wider area), while frag grenade will give you wipes more often. You have more time to react and retreat while bombs flying. Yes, team weapons have lesser chances, especially when sitting in the middle of ability.
In fact, i think frag run should work close to this ability. Only stun for vehicle and good damage for infantry.
10 Oct 2019, 21:49 PM
#18
Posts: 1351
No, they don't wipe, it was made sure after it got heavily nerfed after introduction, unless you keep heavily wounded squads on field, whatever inf gets hit by frags is dead regardless of health.
They also arrive slower.
Form my experience any damage to the model will make it dead under clusters (so if you use them after a few second after the skirmish begins you wipe everything), often units get hit by a few clusters on retreat (especially crew weapons including paks). With fragmentation bombs you must aim really well. Clusers don't need that precision. Anyway - imo cluser bombs are more effective overall.
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10 Oct 2019, 21:51 PM
#19
Posts: 1351
It don't damage tanks so well as frag run. It also not give you guarantee wipes (but have wider area), while frag grenade will give you wipes more often. You have more time to react and retreat while bombs flying. Yes, team weapons have lesser chances, especially when sitting in the middle of ability.
In fact, i think frag run should work close to this ability. Only stun for vehicle and good damage for infantry.
To me they are too similar to change anything - only price could be adjusted. IMO clusters should be more expensive.
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10 Oct 2019, 21:55 PM
#20
Posts: 711
Form my experience any damage to the model will make it dead under clusters (so if you use them after a few second after the skirmish begins you wipe everything), often units get hit by a few clusters on retreat (especially crew weapons including paks). With fragmentation bombs you must aim really well. Clusers don't need that precision. Anyway - imo cluser bombs are more effective overall.
The same issue as with il-2 bombing run, if you hitted good - result exellent, but frag run much easier with that. Frag also very good against garrisons, while in cluster you could survive in building. You even could kill damaged vehicles with frag run - i losted some su-85 when they caught under frag run.
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