allow 7 man Conscripts PPSH41 or PTRS

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 12:22 PMLago

I'd be hesitant to adjust the raw performance of Shocks: they're finally a state where they're usable but counterable.

They could maybe stand to have a later timing though. CP2 is very early for that sort of unit.


I'm unconvinced that Guards are still a problem. I can see why people would have philosophical problems with a combination AI-AT squad, but I don't think their present power level is anything to write home about.


As for Conscripts? Ditch the sidetech.

Conscripts are always going to be an inferior option when you have to pay an extra 230 MP 20 FU just to unlock their utility abilities. A smaller sideteching barrier was enough to all but exterminate Ostheer T2.

Throw out Conscript sidetech entirely. It doesn't achieve its design goals. If that cost has to be in the tech tree, put it on T3 so Penal builds can't skip it.

So long as the Penal teching path is stronger and cheaper, Conscripts are always going to be off-meta.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 12:22 PMLago

I'd be hesitant to adjust the raw performance of Shocks: they're finally a state where they're usable but counterable.

They could maybe stand to have a later timing though. CP2 is very early for that sort of unit.


I'm unconvinced that Guards are still a problem. I can see why people would have philosophical problems with a combination AI-AT squad, but I don't think their present power level is anything to write home about.


As for Conscripts? Ditch the sidetech.

Conscripts are always going to be an inferior option when you have to pay an extra 230 MP 20 FU just to unlock their utility abilities. A smaller sideteching barrier was enough to all but exterminate Ostheer T2.

Throw out Conscript sidetech entirely. It doesn't achieve its design goals. If that cost has to be in the tech tree, put it on T3 so Penal builds can't skip it.

So long as the Penal teching path is stronger and cheaper, Conscripts are always going to be off-meta.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 13:29 PMullumulu

Someone never seen a good use of cons with ppsh...which push back almost every axis infantry easily.
for such a low price with such many abilitys and usefully tools...

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 14:30 PMthedarkarmadillo

I know it's been said but I'd rather just make cons cheaper. Then they are cheap and ripe for merging if that's what you want or you can invest in them to be a mainline. But all globals not squad by squad. Imo. Then they are expendable as intended.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 21:56 PMLago

Global upgrades are anathema to mixed compositions.

Making Conscripts cheaper won't fix the fundamental design problem with global upgrades. Conscript upgrades are only cost effective if you build several squads, so there's little point mixing them into other builds.

Why would people build Conscripts when they're rewarded so heavily for not doing so?

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 22:12 PMLago

You could try Molotovs on one tech structure, AT grenades on two.

Or take a leaf out of USF's book and put the AT grenades behind Vet 1. That works surprisingly well.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 23:01 PMStug life

why not make the cost of molotov in tier 3 and make them unlock after 1 tier and then u keep at nade upgrade but penals needs the upgrade for at package ?

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 23:01 PMStug life

why not make the cost of molotov in tier 3 and make them unlock after 1 tier and then u keep at nade upgrade but penals needs the upgrade for at package ?

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 20:38 PMKatitof

Someone has never seen a good axis player, who is able to inflict attrition to ppsh cons without getting a single model loss over time, works on 1v1 squad and blob vs blob basis.

Not saying ppsh cons aren't good, they sure are fine, but you aren't exactly authority in how to play the game.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 21:56 PMLago

Global upgrades are anathema to mixed compositions.

Making Conscripts cheaper won't fix the fundamental design problem with global upgrades. Conscript upgrades are only cost effective if you build several squads, so there's little point mixing them into other builds.

Why would people build Conscripts when they're rewarded so heavily for not doing so?

Jump back to quoted post22 Sep 2019, 02:10 AMthedarkarmadillo

The whole point of the 7 man upgrade is so cons can be powerful WITHOUT a doctrine... Watering it down so it works betterwith a select few commanders returns cons to the "yea let's just shelf these lads again" pile.

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 19:38 PMzerocoh

This, end of discussion. What needs to happen is other squads need nerfs.

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2019, 20:22 PMflyingpancake

This still wont make the PPSh competitive against 7 man conscript, to not even mention the SVT upgrade that does everything better then PPSH upgrade.The PPSH takes up an ability slot in commanders but is allways a worse choice then 7th man upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post23 Sep 2019, 21:56 PMLago

Global upgrades are anathema to mixed compositions.

Making Conscripts cheaper won't fix the fundamental design problem with global upgrades. Conscript upgrades are only cost effective if you build several squads, so there's little point mixing them into other builds.

Why would people build Conscripts when they're rewarded so heavily for not doing so?