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State of the Kingtiger

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13 Sep 2019, 13:23 PM
#41
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2019, 12:55 PMKatitof


So use adequate unit?
Why are you ignoring top tier TD for the faction and bring up mid tier TD against a top tier unit?

Do you also complain about Easy8 sherman armor after trying to use Puma against it?

JP4 is not supposed to fight heavies.
That's why panther exists.

You are comparing inadequate unit to prove a point that doesn't exist outside of your head.

And no, panther doesn't bounce often on ISU, even if you stay at max range for whatever mad reason, majority of shots pen it.

Also, if you want to bitch about ISU, make a thread about ISU.
Stop derailing this one.


So..a panther at far range (has only 50 range) must come near to a ISU wich has range 70 ..with a range accur modifier from 0.35 and with a penetration chance from 65%. and than u need 7 penetration to kill this beast...good luck.
13 Sep 2019, 13:28 PM
#42
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



So..a panther at far range (has only 50 range) must come near to a ISU wich has range 70 ..with a range accur modifier from 0.35 and with a penetration chance from 65%. and than u need 7 penetration to kill this beast...good luck.

Would you like to try your luck with SU-85 against JagdTiger frontally instead?
Now, will you stop derailing and go cry about ISU in ISU thread?
13 Sep 2019, 13:41 PM
#45
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



The MGs do not really have anything to do with the comparison, other than heavily influencing the tests you did. The KT's MG is fine.


The comparison should be about AOE, because that is the main damage dealer in the mid to late game versus vetted (low target size) squads with yellow cover abundantly available (at which point MG DPS is reduced significantly), in real game scenarios where squads are clumped up more often than not.

And against more clumped up squads, the new King Tiger's AOE is undeniably better at dealing consistent and high damage than the Panzer IV's. See Lago's comparison chart with the KT AOE vs the HE Sherman's and imagine the P4J AOE being much worse than the HE Sherman's.
while i do agree in the aoe department, the better scatter and reload of the p4 makes up the difference, if u don't believe me do ur own test vs okw p4
13 Sep 2019, 16:46 PM
#49
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Can you all guess what stance I'm going to take on this topic? :snfPeter:

While the KT is no longer piss poor IMO, it is still surprising that in tightropes tests the Tiger 1 was substantially better. I expect the IS2 and pershing are to be on par with the Tiger 1 as well. So what I don't understand is why a more expensive slower unit, but with more armor and HP has to have a gun that is even worse than its heavy counterparts.
13 Sep 2019, 17:14 PM
#50
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

IMO Su85 and Jackson should lose the extra pen they get with vet so FF and the others are all on the same (fair) level. Right now the vet 2 pen of Jackson and Su85 are just too crazy for effective Axis heavy tank usage. Jackson HVAP rounds can stay considering they increase reload.
13 Sep 2019, 17:17 PM
#51
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

What the KT needs imo is a turret rotation and/or mobility buff. The thing is deadly and durable enough already and mostly crippled by its speed. A buff to the pintle MG wouldn't hurt either imo.
13 Sep 2019, 22:07 PM
#52
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

IMO Su85 and Jackson should lose the extra pen they get with vet so FF and the others are all on the same (fair) level. Right now the vet 2 pen of Jackson and Su85 are just too crazy for effective Axis heavy tank usage. Jackson HVAP rounds can stay considering they increase reload.


What would you suggest to replace it for? Reload would made it even stronger (as it was before).

Current alternatives:
-30% reload, -30% scatter
+30% armour, -10% reload
-20% reload, +20% speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
-+10% armour, +25% HP, +35% sight range
+20% speed, +20% rotation speed, -20% reload
-25% reload, Weapon rotation+ 35%

13 Sep 2019, 22:11 PM
#53
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



What would you suggest to replace it for? Reload would made it even stronger (as it was before).

Current alternatives:
-30% reload, -30% scatter
+30% armour, -10% reload
-20% reload, +20% speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
-+10% armour, +25% HP, +35% sight range
+20% speed, +20% rotation speed, -20% reload
-25% reload, Weapon rotation+ 35%



As far as the Su85 goes, more rotation rate and/or a more forgiving moving accuracy penalty would always be nice. It already has good sight, pen and reload.
13 Sep 2019, 22:17 PM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



What would you suggest to replace it for? Reload would made it even stronger (as it was before).

Current alternatives:
-30% reload, -30% scatter
+30% armour, -10% reload
-20% reload, +20% speed, +20% rotation speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
-+10% armour, +25% HP, +35% sight range
+20% speed, +20% rotation speed, -20% reload
-25% reload, Weapon rotation+ 35%


Either nerf base stats or the veterancy bonuses...
13 Sep 2019, 22:17 PM
#55
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Anything but reload and penetration. No way should a vehicle as fast and mobile as a Jackson have 338 near pen with the regular rounds or 325 far pen with HVAP. Same as SU 85 with its 286 far pen and 312 near pen.
13 Sep 2019, 22:19 PM
#56
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

Can you all guess what stance I'm going to take on this topic? :snfPeter:

While the KT is no longer piss poor IMO, it is still surprising that in tightropes tests the Tiger 1 was substantially better. I expect the IS2 and pershing are to be on par with the Tiger 1 as well. So what I don't understand is why a more expensive slower unit, but with more armor and HP has to have a gun that is even worse than its heavy counterparts.


+1

I think an effective remedy would be to Increase far AOE distance/damage OR Accuracy. It is a bit punishing for the KT to miss with its relatively long reload so doing more far damage on those misses or hitting more frequently would probably be enough to help.

Other than that Its at least worth building now, just not quite as good as other heavies. Even if the gun was about the same the other stats would make up for current cost differences.
13 Sep 2019, 22:20 PM
#57
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

Anyone one did any testing with Spearhead yet?
13 Sep 2019, 22:38 PM
#58
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

Anyone one did any testing with Spearhead yet?


I've used it in game a bit. Makes it harder to get out of trouble with the KT since it replaces blitz, but its basically a free way to make the most out of 45 range having more vision which is nice.

I think it gives 50 vision b/c you can see farther than you can shoot.
13 Sep 2019, 23:51 PM
#59
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



I've used it in game a bit. Makes it harder to get out of trouble with the KT since it replaces blitz, but its basically a free way to make the most out of 45 range having more vision which is nice.

I think it gives 50 vision b/c you can see farther than you can shoot.


KT range is 50 (or it should be unless it was nerfed and I missed it).
14 Sep 2019, 00:02 AM
#60
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



KT range is 50 (or it should be unless it was nerfed and I missed it).
its 45 and always was
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