OKW September patch discussion

Falls in the preview:
- 2 CP, 320mp.
- Drop in with 4 Gren Kars, have free upgrade to 2 FG42's.
- 60 muni upgrade to 4 FG42's once Schwerer is up (with panzer authorization).
- Moderate DPS buffs.
- Veterancy changes

What changes I would like to see:
- 2 CP, 340mp.
- Drop in with 4 Ober Kars, have free upgrade to 2 FG42's. https://i.imgur.com/RyPxRpW.png
- 60 muni upgrade to 4 FG42's once Schwerer is up (with panzer authorization).
- Revert most of the DPS buffs but lower their RA by 5%.
- Veterancy changes

Rationale
They should feel like an elite squad once they arrive on the battlefield, which they don't right now. Giving them Ober Kars would add that extra *oomph* they need to make an impact early on, in exchange for a slightly increased starting cost. I feel the RA change is necessary with how squishy they are currently, especially if you consider their high reinforcement cost of 35mp. The lower RA would put them between Stormtroopers and Panzergrenadiers in terms of durability, but not make them living panzers like Obersoldaten.

In comparison to the live version of Falls, they'Il arrive earlier and be a bit cheaper, but have less firepower. They won't be that much worse however, because their starting FG42's are stronger and they'Il have better RA. They'Il scale to be a better squad than the old Falls once they have all their FG42's and full veterancy, be it at a slight munitions cost.

Falls in the preview:
...
- Drop in with 4 Ober Kars, have free upgrade to 2 FG42's. https://i.imgur.com/RyPxRpW.png
....

There is no reason for a "free" upgrade the mechanism is used for infiltration units and they are not anymore. Having "free" upgrade make little sense.

There is no reason for a "free" upgrade the mechanism is used for infiltration units and they are not anymore. Having "free" upgrade make little sense.

Ok, I think the same but I edited that part out to avoid clutter.

What do you think of the other suggestions?

Ok, I think the same but didn't add it to my post to avoid clutter.

What do you think of the other suggestions?

Imo 4 men squads lose too much DPS when they have the same weapon so I wouldn't go for 4 FG42 in 4 men squads.

340 MP cost is rather high for my test and would rather balance them in a lower Power level or have the cost moved to MU in the upgrade.

As I have already mentioned I would rather have them redesigned so they do not overlap with obers. There plenty of units they can be modeled after like:
SMG Paras
LMG Paras
AT Paras
Stormtroopers
Rangers
Commandos

Falls in the preview:
- 2 CP, 320mp.
- Drop in with 4 Gren Kars, have free upgrade to 2 FG42's.
- 60 muni upgrade to 4 FG42's once Schwerer is up.
- Moderate DPS buffs.
- Veterancy changes

What changes I would like to see:
- 2 CP, 340mp.
- Drop in with 4 Ober Kars, have free upgrade to 2 FG42's. https://i.imgur.com/RyPxRpW.png
- 60 muni upgrade to 4 FG42's once Schwerer is up.
- Revert most of the DPS buffs but lower their RA by 5%.
- Veterancy changes

Rationale
They should feel like an elite squad once they arrive on the battlefield, which they don't right now. Giving them Ober Kars would add that extra *oomph* they need to make an impact early on, in exchange for a slightly increased starting cost. I feel the RA change is necessary with how squishy they are currently, especially if you consider their high reinforcement cost of 35mp. The lower RA would put them between Stormtroopers and Panzergrenadiers in terms of durability, but not make them living panzers like Obersoldaten.

In comparison to the live version of Falls, they'Il arrive earlier and be a bit cheaper, but have less firepower. They won't be that much worse however, because their starting FG42's are stronger and they'Il have better RA. They'Il scale to be a better squad than the old Falls once they have all their FG42's and full veterancy, be it at a slight munitions cost.

Wait essentially you want them to become better obers that infiltrate and drop at cp2?

Dafuq is this

Wait essentially you want them to become better obers that infiltrate and drop at cp2?

Dafuq is this

Spawning slightly earlier with 2 Gren Kars + 2 FG42's is much worse than just spawning with 4 FG42's at 3 CP as they do now. Furthermore, it takes them a long time to finally get their 4 FG42's (panzer authorization, so 120 fuel after your first/second light vehicle). The change has made their timing worse.

Instead of moving them back to 3 CP, giving them 4 FG42's again and making them more viable there, you could keep them at 2 CP, but give them 2 Ober Kars + 2 FG42's as an inbetween. It would still take them a significant time to get 4 FG42's.

Note: An RA decrease together with an FG42 buff (however minor) is kind of much, so I'd prefer just an RA decrease and evaluating from there, but if the balance team really wants to keep them as pure glass cannons then keep the DPS buffs instead of giving them lower RA.

About your comment: They won't be quite at the level of LMG obers with their worse far range dps, worse RA, worse veterancy, faster damage drop-off and non focus fire FG42's. Probably more comparable to the to-be-buffed G43 Pgrens.

How about instead of giving em gren or ober KARs... give them their own KAR with stats in betweem gren and ober kars

How about rework Incendiary Munitions be a off map barrage ability？
Or replace by Soviet Incendiary Barrage or UKF Anti building Flame Mortar barrage？

To be fair, I really think that falls are currently a (weak) infiltatrion unit.

I think that they should be buffed to make them more commando-like, like buffing their camo etc;

I'm pretty sure it will be easier to do rather than trying to create obersoldaten altenartive from them

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.2 Changes
August 22nd 2019

OKW

Starting Resources
We will be closely monitoring how the following change affects line infantry, including panzerfusilliers, who will probably receive a cost reduction in the next version given their lower effectiveness in the early game.
- Manpower further reduced from 320 to 300.

Fallschirmjäger
- Now drops in with 2 FG 42s; second set has no requirements.
- Now gains +25% accuracy when firing from stealth.
- Veterancy 5 provides an additional 20% bonus.

Sturm Offizier
- Now has access to Model 24 Smoke Grenades. 15 munitions.
- Grenade benefits from Veterancy 1 cost reduction and Veterancy 2 ability range. -5 munition cost, +5 range.
- Veterancy 5 now grants -25% weapon cooldown
- Mark Target Received Accuracy penalty from 1.5 to 1.3
- Mark Target tool-tip adjusted; ability does not boost the effectiveness of nearby enemies.

Command Tiger I
- Far AOE damage from 0.1 to 1.75
- Mid AOE distance from 1 to 1.5

King Tiger
- Mid AOE distance from 1 to 1.25
- Far AOE damage from 0.125 to 0.15

Raketen
- Can Retreat once again

Opel Blitz
- CP requirement from 1 to 2

Assault Artillery
- Assault Artillery radius from 50 to 45
- Assault Artillery shell count from 20 to 25

Why are we still not doing anything about the artillery flare when 70 percent of the community wants something done about it and the other 30 love abusing it so they dont want anything done about it. Do you work for the community or for yourself interest?

It is so simple to fix by either make it work the same and flare on riflemen to volks, or just make it some kind of a rcon plane.

So total cumulative changes to rak are now:

5 man crew, 55 range, retreat available, camo locked at tier 1, cannot move while camo'd? (and can garrison)

... That's pretty strong, IMO, and while it removes the majority of the stealth-creep cheese, I think it's a bit much to have both retreat and 5 man crew.

Still, will need to test it out a bit to really see.

So the only AT gun with nondoctrinal camo also now only has 5 less range than other AT guns but also gets an extra man and retreat. Aight.

In all seriousness, I think that's a bit much too, and even though the camo creep BS is going to be gone, retreat is going to allow people to still be absurdly ballsy with the rak.

The issue I see with retreating AT guns is that AT guns function all on burst damage anyway, not like infantry squads that have fairly low reloads and for all intents and purposes are constantly firing their weapons, but with the rak you can just get that one shot off and retreat before taking practically any damage at all with very minimal risk of being wiped, bar lucky explosive shots. Imagine trying to wipe an almost full health volk squad on retreat constantly. That's the issue I see there, only exacerbated by camo too (which is at least locked behind vet1 so it'll take a bit of effort). Think people just sitting two raks in camo and taking half the health off a medium in one volley and then just retreating, or staying the extra 4-5 seconds to get another volley off and kill the tank if it isn't supported by like an entire army and still get away with not that much risk.

The issue with the Rak is that it dies to a sneeze. If it doesn't have retreat, there's no point in using it because it will just inevitably end up in enemy hands.

So the only AT gun with nondoctrinal camo also now only has 5 less range than other AT guns but also gets an extra man and retreat. Aight.

In all seriousness, I think that's a bit much too, and even though the camo creep BS is going to be gone, retreat is going to allow people to still be absurdly ballsy with the rak.

The issue I see with retreating AT guns is that AT guns function all on burst damage anyway, not like infantry squads that have fairly low reloads and for all intents and purposes are constantly firing their weapons, but with the rak you can just get that one shot off and retreat before taking practically any damage at all with very minimal risk of being wiped, bar lucky explosive shots. Imagine trying to wipe an almost full health volk squad on retreat constantly. That's the issue I see there, only exacerbated by camo too (which is at least locked behind vet1 so it'll take a bit of effort). Think people just sitting two raks in camo and taking half the health off a medium in one volley and then just retreating, or staying the extra 4-5 seconds to get another volley off and kill the tank if it isn't supported by like an entire army and still get away with not that much risk.

Next they could try to give it camo, but no retreat, I think it just can't have both. If you think about it soviet AT guns have camo, but there is no cheese with them because they can't retreat if they run up to a tank and start shooting at it with no support.

The issue with the Rak is that it dies to a sneeze. If it doesn't have retreat, there's no point in using it because it will just inevitably end up in enemy hands.

Not anymore. It's five men now, remember? And it only has 5 less range than real AT guns. Almost as hard to wipe as the soviet one now.

Inb4 "but gunshield". Gunshields don't actually provide cover.

Next they could try to give it camo, but no retreat, I think it just can't have both

That's what it used to be in the first iteration of the balance patch. They never did the other way around but IMO it should have camo and not retreat if anything.

Inb4 "but gunshield". Gunshields don't actually provide cover.

As far as I'm aware, gunshields do provide cover when the gun is facing a certain direction, and they do generally provide the -50% green cover damage reduction against explosions. That's still better than nothing. And the Raketen does neither of those things.

As far as I'm aware, gunshields do provide cover when the gun is facing a certain direction, and they do generally provide the -50% damage green cover reduction against explosions. That's still better than nothing. And the Raketen does neither of those things.

They do not. There is no gun shield stat and the model doesn't soak up AOE damage from getting to the crew. The only issue with the raketen is the crew is bunched up closer than most crew weapons. Same with the pack howitzer crew (which also has 1.25 RA)

the gun shield provide cover but only some times, but it does provide a shoot blocker, the puppchen lack that shoot blocker for some reason that's why u mostly see a tank shell hit the crew directly

They do not. There is no gun shield stat and the model doesn't soak up AOE damage from getting to the crew. The only issue with the raketen is the crew is bunched up closer than most crew weapons.

The Grenadier Riflegrenade does not deal its regular 80 or lethal near range damage here despite scoring a direct hit on one of the crewmen.


At the same time, an identical direct hit on one of the Raketen crew, instantly kills both gunner models.