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Wehrmacht September patch discussion

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15 Aug 2019, 09:15 AM
#21
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 08:32 AMSmartie


I welcome most of the changes but im disappointed that Wehrmacht doesnt get commander specific changes like OKW, Soviets and USF.

Lets be honest:
Mobile defense was already awful after the changes to the Puma but now its
"nuked out of existence" with the changes to the Commando P4. It was not used before why should players choose it now?
Please be consequent now and change the commander accordingly - it really needs massive changes!


Well, one possibility can be fixing it like they fixed the UKF Valentine tank:

:)
15 Aug 2019, 10:11 AM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

The command PIV change is a fix but it is irrelevant in 2 senses. That it still fulfill it's job of preventing wipes and adding a +1 shell survival to all tanks but in it's current form won't be a top choice, cause it already isn't.

If the unit needs love, it could be improved through MG DPS so it turns into a support AI tank.

As long as the unit buff allied units with dmg modifiers, it will always be hard to balance. You could try reverting some nerfs and make it so it only affects your own tanks and only allied infantry/support weapons.
15 Aug 2019, 10:28 AM
#23
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789



While the rework for merge-units sounds interesting, I don't think that your idea will translate well into the game.
Apart from that: This thread is patchnote discussion, if you want to suggest and discuss a different change, please open a new thread or reuse a recent one. Otherwise it's getting confusing in here :)

I’d delete & repost but I don’t know how to delete the comment
15 Aug 2019, 11:26 AM
#24
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

The command PIV change is a fix but it is irrelevant in 2 senses. That it still fulfill it's job of preventing wipes and adding a +1 shell survival to all tanks but in it's current form won't be a top choice, cause it already isn't.

If the unit needs love, it could be improved through MG DPS so it turns into a support AI tank.

As long as the unit buff allied units with dmg modifiers, it will always be hard to balance. You could try reverting some nerfs and make it so it only affects your own tanks and only allied infantry/support weapons.
the stug would like to have a word with u as 144 x 4 > 560

And we all know how much the stug is used

Even worse for the puma now the cp4 does nothing for it both vs 120 damage and 160, it’s just a jk now

Change it to 0.85 so it actually give 1 more hit to all tanks at least (puma will still be a jk)
15 Aug 2019, 12:10 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

the stug would like to have a word with u as 144 x 4 > 560

And we all know how much the stug is used

Even worse for the puma now the cp4 does nothing for it both vs 120 damage and 160, it’s just a jk now

Change it to 0.85 so it actually give 1 more hit to all tanks at least (puma will still be a jk)


Point taken. Same probably happens with 1080 and higher HP vehicles.

Thing is, the problem is AoE aura dmg modifiers. The less we have in the game, the less fringe cases of it breaking the game we will find. Just remember how the FHQ was reworked in the soviet commander.

I'll say it again, if the unit provides strong aura ONLY to owned units, then most of the nerfs can be reverted. If the aura applies to only allied infantry and support weapons, the unit remains strong but it won't suddenly boost unrealistic amount of armor units which can never be fielded on 1v1 but break the game on other modes.
15 Aug 2019, 12:13 PM
#26
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Point taken. Same probably happens with 1080 and higher HP vehicles.

Thing is, the problem is AoE aura dmg modifiers. The less we have in the game, the less fringe cases of it breaking the game we will find. Just remember how the FHQ was reworked in the soviet commander.

I'll say it again, if the unit provides strong aura ONLY to owned units, then most of the nerfs can be reverted. If the aura applies to only allied infantry and support weapons, the unit remains strong but it won't suddenly boost unrealistic amount of armor units which can never be fielded on 1v1 but break the game on other modes.
the make affect ur own units only or at least ur own tanks only, but put the buff back to 0.8 and make it apply to itself
15 Aug 2019, 12:20 PM
#27
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Nothing for grens? They still struggle with their 4 men squads, especially vs the soon to be earlier on the field 7 men cons.
15 Aug 2019, 12:38 PM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Nothing for grens? They still struggle with their 4 men squads, especially vs the soon to be earlier on the field 7 men cons.

So stop spamming them and use snipers or HMG42 or 251 or PGs as the faction is intended to do.
You want to spam basic infantry and ride on that, you have OKW and USF.
15 Aug 2019, 12:44 PM
#29
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Sniper vs 6 men lol
Especially now with the new su sniper
15 Aug 2019, 12:45 PM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

the make affect ur own units only or at least ur own tanks only, but put the buff back to 0.8 and make it apply to itself


That's why i said a middle ground should be fine. I don't think completely removing the ability to affect allies is deserved but removing it from allied tanks would leave space to revert most of the nerfs to the unit.
15 Aug 2019, 12:50 PM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Sniper vs 6 men lol
Especially now with the new su sniper


Feel free to learn to use any other of the mentioned options that were all buffed in the last couple of patches then.

I'm terribly sorry to inform you, but its not 2013 anymore, march deployment patch is not going to come back, grens will never again be viable as spam and a-move unit again, you need to learn to use factions intended combined arms at last.
15 Aug 2019, 12:52 PM
#32
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

I do not know if it supposed to be a thing but...

When you compare the vet between Wehr Sniper and SU Sniper.

SU sniper shoots slightly faster. Only if you look closely, you can see that is merely shoots faster by a second, possibly two.

Is it supposed to be that way?
15 Aug 2019, 12:55 PM
#33
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I do not know if it supposed to be a thing but...

When you compare the vet between Wehr Sniper and SU Sniper.

SU sniper shoots slightly faster. Only if you look closely, you can see that is merely shoots faster by a second, possibly two.

Is it supposed to be that way?

They have identical stats.
Stop the bs.
15 Aug 2019, 13:00 PM
#34
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 12:55 PMKatitof

They have identical stats.
Stop the bs.


It is not BS.

Honestly, just look how it shoots according to the second difference when its a vet in game.

Screw the stats if you dont see the difference in game.

Only Vet 2 and 3 can you really see the difference since vet 1 does not apply.

As I said. Maybe just by a 1 second or 2.
15 Aug 2019, 13:31 PM
#35
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

Grens at vet3 vs Cons at vet3 is in (definently) cons favor. They have %1 RA difference but cons are 20mp to reinforce and 6 man ultra durable squad (again talking about vet3) compare that to gren with 4 man identical RA and must be stationary to use the hilariously long aiming lmg42. With the changes to cons upgrade odds are even harsher. People justify ost as an combined arms faction by simply looking at the mg42. But in how many occasions you can go for a succesful assault with mg42 and its really long deploy time.

From now on grens are definently the worst line infantry. But both grens and cons will continue to suck against every single WFA infantry.
15 Aug 2019, 13:39 PM
#36
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 13:31 PMJilet
People justify ost as an combined arms faction by simply looking at the mg42. But in how many occasions you can go for a succesful assault with mg42 and its really long deploy

Then I suppose its good that you can get and vet PGs earlier then ever before and 251 packed with utility can back grens early.

You have all the utensils you need, its your fault you try to eat a soup with a fork and are surprised it doesn't work.
15 Aug 2019, 13:48 PM
#37
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 13:39 PMKatitof

Then I suppose its good that you can get and vet PGs earlier then ever before and 251 packed with utility can back grens early.


The fact is : Wehr is not the only faction that has access to those stuff. SOV got the halftrack, USF got the ambo, UKF got the doctrinal halftrack. For Pgrens SOV has access to Shocktroops/Guards in almost all of their doctrines, USF and UKF don't need those while their infantry being superior, scaling better and having the so called assets that you have mentioned. Yet OST is the one being called combined arms faction. With every single faction you need to use combined arms to get from point A to point B but none of them has the power that strictly dispersed between units like OST and are not forced to be stationary that much. That is my complaint.

And you are not the only person that knows how to eat stuff in this forum so don't act like you are.
15 Aug 2019, 13:52 PM
#38
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

The issue with grens is with being 4 man and getting wiped too easily. They need a 5th man non doc upgrade
15 Aug 2019, 13:53 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 13:52 PMAlphrum
The issue with grens is with being 4 man and getting wiped too easily. They need a 5th man non doc upgrade

Then you'll be happy to know they aren't going to get that option - ever.
You feel like you need it, you have a doc for it.
15 Aug 2019, 14:33 PM
#40
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Grenadiers are well balanced infantry, but they start to bleed hard in the lategame when they get outcompeted by elite or fully upgraded Allied infantry. DevM has mentioned the same thing, so I know I'm not the only one who experiences this.

All they would need is a small reinforcement cost reduction, possibly with tech. Was personally thinking of 30->28 mp reinforcement once battle phase 2 is researched (T3 tech). Would save Ostheer around 100-150 mp total in a dragged out game.
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