Riflemen need a buff or Volks need a nerf?

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 02:35 AMAlphrum

for 30mp more, you have similar long range DPS whilst having superior mid and close range dps. and u somehow saying that proves volks OP? my god what the hell

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 02:35 AMAlphrum

You say remove stg and buff vet, so essentially your guna have volks that cant upgrade non doc? you mean like cons who have great vet but no upgrade?, they guna become worthless.

Jump back to quoted post9 Aug 2019, 20:03 PMHannibal

Could be, I don't know. It was more a feeling that I have. Where did you get the stats/knowledge from?



I don't want Riflemen to be buffed, they're alright the way they are. It's just Volks and IS that are overperforming. Problem against OKW is the extremely high early game pressure by Sturmpioneers that 1v1 your Riflemen and cheaper Volks, that leads to high map presence of OKW. Problem against Volks especially is that you need to close in, so you have a higher chance to drop a model first which negates your close range advantage. Otherwise you can slug it out long range with 50% chance of losing and 50% chance of winning, but then OKW was able to pin down a unit of yours that did cost 30 MP more to build and 3 MP per model more to reinforce, so he traded well even if he loses the fight. This becomes worse with StGs, an upgrade option that OKW gets for free, while USF needs to sidetech, putting them further behind on MP and negates fuel advantage.

UKF does not have the problem. First because IS are too strong as well, and second because they CAN slug it out long range. So OKW needs to move and starts dropping models first.

Tone down Volks slightly (general nerf, upgrade nerf or whatever) and Riflemen are fine, as they're decently balanced against Grens. IS should be discussed in another thread.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 02:22 AMgbem

Actually that chart kinda proves volks are OP... the fact that they have superior long dps to rifles past range 20 while costing 30mp less is a huge difference... plus they get sandbags

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 02:35 AMAlphrum

for 30mp more, you have similar long range DPS whilst having superior mid and close range dps. and u somehow saying that proves volks OP? my god what the hell

@stug life,

You say remove stg and buff vet, so essentially your guna have volks that cant upgrade non doc? you mean like cons who have great vet but no upgrade?, they guna become worthless.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 08:38 AMSander93

It might surprise you, but being more expensive does not equal having to be better at literally everything. Certain units still have ideal engagement ranges because it makes the game tactically interesting.

6,4% better DPS for Volks at max range while Rifles have 3% better target size means this is basically neglectable, but Riflemen have way better close and close to mid range DPS. They are well worth their 280 manpower, especially considering their superior scaling in the mid and late game.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:03 AMJilet

Problem is IS and Penals overperforming compared to Rifleman. I don't get why people want to faceroll axis just like those two ridicilous powerhouses. Rifles are probably the the best matched infantry to axis infantry (Like seriously) .

But when you compare them to other allied infantry they are lackluster. That's why in 2v2's Brit-Soviet composition is being choosen.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:03 AMJilet

Problem is IS and Penals overperforming compared to Rifleman.

I don't get why people want to faceroll axis just like those two ridicilous powerhouses. Rifles are probably the the best matched infantry to axis infantry (Like seriously).

But when you compare them to other allied infantry they are lackluster. That's why in 2v2's Brit-Soviet composition is being choosen.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:52 AMNagato

Lmao Penals, the units in a faction with less starting resources and weakest starting unit (CE) that you need to build T1 for and pay more,wait longer for are overperforming compared to T0, cheaper Riflemen? Not to forget Penals don't scale like Rifles do with weapon pick ups


I guess Obers are overperforming compared to Riflemen too...
And mg-42 to maxim....

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:07 AMJilet

Yeah penals definently don't scale with PRTS.
Talking about Obers they come way to late for an infantry with ridicilous reinforce cost and 10 popcap.
For MG-42 yes is overperforms in terms of suppression and arc but you can always go 2 maxims and use them like infantry don't for get MGs continue to fire even if they are pinned.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:57 AMKatitof

And your argument to support that thesis is.... ?

Because brits have much lower infantry presence then USK and penals are not only most expensive mainline inf at 300mp, they also come latest, are always outnumbered and have worst scaling, yes, they have good vet, but they don't get weapon upgrades and their RA vet is extremely low compared to any other inf in game.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:57 AMKatitof

IS might be overperforming out of cover compared to their original intended dynamics, but that's addressed next patch if I understood correctly, penals are pure L2P issue.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:57 AMKatitof

They don't - they simply want units to perform accordingly to their cost. Volks cost 250 and perform as they were 270. Rifles themselves are pretty fine actually.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:57 AMKatitof

Actually, compared to rifles and tommies, its penals who end up as luckluster as while they are excellent out of the gate, they slow down with below average late game scaling(vet alone vs vet+weapons everyone else but cons get).

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:11 AMNagato

Yeah, PTSR penals scale super well after you buy an upgrade that makes you lose all anti-infantry potential so u can kill those pesky light vehicles late game and become a satchel bot. Epic!

Also it's not 2014 anymore.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:17 AMJilet

I do not imply that they scale super well. Their early power transforms into map control map control transforms into teching faster etc. You are misjugding my man. And we are really going out of topic. I dream a better world with better cons where penal terminators don't exist.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 10:05 AMgbem

but when volks are compared to cons or grens volks simply beat both waay too cost efficiently for a measly 10mp....

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:18 AMNagato

As do I but as the dev team has pointed out it won't happen since they hate Soviets.

But to wrap it up, Penals get outnumbered early game because they come late and cost more.
if you fight 1v1 against Penals then sure you're going to lose.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:21 AMSander93

OKW has been designed with worse support weapons, so Volksgrenadiers are meant to be able to fight better independently than their counterparts. They are meant to be slightly more cost effective than other infantry.

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:50 AMgbem

laughs in maxim

Jump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 11:57 AMSander93

The Maxim does well enough when it's supported by infantry.
More importantly, it and the mortar are available to support Conscripts way sooner than the HMG 34 and the ISG are available to support Volksgrenadiers.