British balance - Tommy too strong

An mg42 in building can shut the UKF down for 3-4 fist minutes of a game while OKW can roam through everything in that timeframe just by stum and flame nade, but sure, why not ?

I hate to tell you this, but a MG in a strategic building will shut down any faction for 3-4 minutes.

Unless you just go around it.


Even if it’s covering the fuel, there is almost always a cutoff that it can’t cover that you can take

I hate to tell you this, but a MG in a strategic building will shut down any faction for 3-4 minutes.

Let take a look at early gane garrison clearing tools of each faction, before 4 minutes mark.

OKW: have fame nade when fist truck come out (not event have to built any tech structure). Chep Volk allow get more squad, give more chance to flank, stum deal great dmg close in even vs garrison.

OST: Pio have longer sight range, allow prespot MG for easier flanking. Gwr 34 mortar in T1, which is the building you built right from the stat. Pio can upgrade flamer.

USF: T0 mortar.

Sov: T1 mortar. Side tech for molly, which is bad compare to flame nade, CE flamer + scout car(later than 4 minutes)

UKF: ??? (UC flamer is behind platoon CO and 75 muni, while cant stand long enough for 3 round of fire in front any axis MG)

Now coming to the MG of each faction.

OKW: Volk do the jobs, Mg34 after fist building, not so great but can suppress and have vẻ 1 magical round. Do the job for the price.

OST: T0 Mg42, best Mg in the game in term of suppression (Which is the most important jobs of an MG). Vet 1 magical round which shred upto AEC. Have Pio to spot with increase sight, can selfspot if recrew by pio.

Us: M2 locked behind Lieu, great Mg but come un much later.

Sov: T1 Maxim, lock out early penal. almost cant suppress anything.

UKF: T0 Vicker, trong MG in many player's opinion but still wost than 42 in suppress

Among all factions, UKF struggle the most Vs early MG spam from ost, while OKW have best tool to break early game MG Garrison from Alies, ost come in second.

Let take a look at early gane garrison clearing tools of each faction, before 4 minutes mark.

OKW: have fame nade when fist truck come out (not event have to built any tech structure). Chep Volk allow get more squad, give more chance to flank, stum deal great dmg close in even vs garrison.

OST: Pio have longer sight range, allow prespot MG for easier flanking. Gwr 34 mortar in T1, which is the building you built right from the stat. Pio can upgrade flamer.

USF: T0 mortar.

Sov: T1 mortar. Side tech for molly, which is bad compare to flame nade, CE flamer + scout car(later than 4 minutes)

UKF: ??? (UC flamer is behind platoon CO and 75 muni, while cant stand long enough for 3 round of fire in front any axis MG)

Now coming to the MG of each faction.

OKW: Volk do the jobs, Mg34 after fist building, not so great but can suppress and have vẻ 1 magical round. Do the job for the price.

OST: T0 Mg42, best Mg in the game in term of suppression (Which is the most important jobs of an MG). Vet 1 magical round which shred upto AEC. Have Pio to spot with increase sight, can selfspot if recrew by pio.

Us: M2 locked behind Lieu, great Mg but come un much later.

Sov: T1 Maxim, lock out early penal. almost cant suppress anything.

UKF: T0 Vicker, trong MG in many player's opinion but still wost than 42 in suppress

Among all factions, UKF struggle the most Vs early MG spam from ost, while OKW have best tool to break early game MG Garrison from Alies, ost come in second.

Then just pick Lend Lease Assault. Problem solved.

Ofc you could build a sniper, or, like you said, you could build a wasp
Another thing is your infantry sections should be destroying his grenadiers, and when he gets MG42s you can bolster to keep wreaking his face

If you tell me that the Brits shouldn’t have to pick a doctrine(mortars) to counter Ostheer’s non doc unit(MGs) then Ostheer shouldn’t have to pick a non doc unit(Elephant) to counter a non doc unit(60 rage TDs)

Then just pick Lend Lease Assault. Problem solved.

Ofc you could build a sniper, or, like you said, you could build a wasp
Another thing is your infantry sections should be destroying his grenadiers, and when he gets MG42s you can bolster to keep wreaking his face

If you tell me that the Brits shouldn’t have to pick a doctrine(mortars) to counter Ostheer’s non doc unit(MGs) then Ostheer shouldn’t have to pick a non doc unit(Elephant) to counter a non doc unit(60 rage TDs)

This thread is abot tommy too strong, especially for early game, right ? Then by your logic, pic a doc with assgren for early game and built a stumpz or a couple of ober late game, problem solved.

And OST doesn't have to pick a doc to counter TD, since panzergren exist.

By the way, sniper and wasp doesn't come before 4 minutes mark. And they both sucked

No faction should require a doctrinal awnser to a non doc problem.
We won't have balance unless each faction can face each other without consideration of doctrines.
If each core can fight each other then doctrines become truly optional and can therfore be balanced as such.

"if a unit requires more complex tactics to beat, then it is to use, then that is sorta the definition of overpowered"

so A-moving OKW blobs? Panthers? Heavily armoured, high hp, fast and turreted TD which funnily enough is also decent AI. Stukas? Point and click delete unit which requires the enemy to mirco all their weapon teams / squads or wipe and counterplay is deep diving flanks with AT.
I agree in general with your statement but tommies being able to beat mainline axis units in far range cover combat is not really what I call op. I think bolster comes to early and should be more like the new soviet cons upgrade and only hit the field med-late game.

Let take a look at early gane garrison clearing tools of each faction, before 4 minutes mark.

OKW: have fame nade when fist truck come out (not event have to built any tech structure). Chep Volk allow get more squad, give more chance to flank, stum deal great dmg close in even vs garrison.


UKF: ??? (UC flamer is behind platoon CO and 75 muni, while cant stand long enough for 3 round of fire in front any axis MG)

Now coming to the MG of each faction.

OKW: Volk do the jobs, Mg34 after fist building, not so great but can suppress and have vẻ 1 magical round. Do the job for the price.

Us: M2 locked behind Lieu, great Mg but come un much later.

okw flame nade needs to wait same time as ukf tier 1 so ur argument is false (okw starts with 0-5 fuel while ukf starts with 20)

and again okw mg 34 comes later than all mgs even the cal 50 so again ur argument is wrong

so A-moving OKW blobs? Panthers? Heavily armoured, high hp, fast and turreted TD which funnily enough is also decent AI. Stukas? Point and click delete unit which requires the enemy to mirco all their weapon teams / squads or wipe and counterplay is deep diving flanks with AT.
I agree in general with your statement but tommies being able to beat mainline axis units in far range cover combat is not really what I call op. I think bolster comes to early and should be more like the new soviet cons upgrade and only hit the field med-late game.

Just had a game with my opponent spamming 3 panthers but the thing is ZiS will decimate the panther combined with penals if they try to flank. And also panther cost a whopping 18 pop cap and 185 fuel but still can be countered really cost effectively.

Just had a game with my opponent spamming 3 panthers but the thing is ZiS will decimate the panther combined with penals if they try to flank. And also panther cost a whopping 18 pop cap and 185 fuel but still can be countered really cost effectively.

so your opponent spend all his pop on TD and lost to anti tank guns? ok? That is working as intended.
The panther is not an op unit that does everything. Its an expensive but very very good TD. It requires more skill and micro to fight a panther than it does to use it. Which is still ok in my view. All I pointed out was that the fact that you have to use more micro and skill to counter Tommies than to use Tommies does not mean that Tommies are super OP.

so your opponent spend all his pop on TD and lost to anti tank guns? ok? That is working as intended.
The panther is not an op unit that does everything. Its an expensive but very very good TD. It requires more skill and micro to fight a panther than it does to use it. Which is still ok in my view. All I pointed out was that the fact that you have to use more micro and skill to counter Tommies than to use Tommies does not mean that Tommies are super OP.

Panther is not a TD. It is a middle point between medium and heavy tank but has the speed of light tank. Sound absurd but at a really high price. To be honest i struggle more against MG backed Allied TDs.

And for Tommies their durability combined with damage profile of Lee-Enfields is beyond broken. If you go for MG they just get the lend lease doctrine and get Rangers with phosphorus smoke (Talking about Assault Tommies). Not to mention the SMG Tommy Clown Car.

If they don't go for the doctrine then they still have the A+ tier MG and solid line infantry with unparalled durability and a superb grenade. (When compared to axis)

Only thing that can really face the Tommies are the infamous Obersoldaten but at that point British player is probably dominating the map and has already put his/her Bofors to delay any push at that point.

The only thing that can counter them is Luchs but it also forces your infantry to be constantly healed by medic packs dropped by Sturmpios thus delaying your mines/weapon upgrades etc.

I am totally fine with the transfer of power from Tommies and Vickers to Firefly reload time and Comet viability.

(Post is a little mixed sorry for that and if any offences, apologies)

Can anybody explain to me why whenever I write anything about, for example, really slight buffs for ost and comment that it is easier for me to play as UKF I get criticized to oblivion even when I use very rational unbiased arguments? (in 1v1 I'm between 300-400 as UK; 400-500 as USSR; 400-500 as USF and around 800 as OKW and 500-800 as OST. I know ost best and know almost nothing about UKF). To me Infantry Sections are just more powerful than any other basic infantry.

so A-moving OKW blobs?

A-move your bren blob at em, bren blob wins

Panthers? Heavily armoured, high hp, fast and turreted TD which funnily enough is also decent AI.

A move an AT gun into it?

Stukas? Point and click delete unit which requires the enemy to mirco all their weapon teams / squads or wipe and counterplay is deep diving flanks with AT.

The stuka isnt actually the easiest unit to use, and despite the memes, doesnt actually insta delete everything in its AOE

Furthermore there may be a little bit of a difference between an upgrade that comes super early vs late tanks which requires time and fuel.

okw flame nade needs to wait same time as ukf tier 1 so ur argument is false (okw starts with 0-5 fuel while ukf starts with 20)

and again okw mg 34 comes later than all mgs even the cal 50 so again ur argument is wrong

Sws HT is 100mp - 15 fuel, OkW and UK both need 10 more fuel from the stat to get SWS as OKW or T1 as UK, but OKW need less MP, and SWS built faster than UKF T1.

In terms of unlocking anti garrison tools,
Event if UKF have T2 at the same time OKW have SWS, OWV already have flame nade which can be use immediately by volk on the front line, while UK have to keep waiting MP for sniper, pit, or waiting muni for wasp.

About 50 call, my point only wrong vs OkV, it still right with all remain faction, and OKW have volk to do all the job.

A-move your bren blob at em, bren blob wins.

2 blobs meet in open field, me more expensive blob win.

A move an AT gun into it?

This work when panther's owner is AFK.

Furthermore there may be a little bit of a difference between an upgrade that comes super early vs late tanks which requires time and fuel.

you missed my point. I dont like tommy blobs anymore than you do. A AT gun requires more care and game sense than the panther (again fair enough). My point was that you statement "if its easier to use than to counter then its op" is crap.

Panther is not a TD. It is a middle point between medium and heavy tank but has the speed of light tank. Sound absurd but at a really high price.

The panther is and has always been a TD first with some light AI. What does Ost and OKW get to counter tanks late? Panthers. Now the panther is pricey and I dont think they are OP but its primary function is indeed as a Tank hunter / destroyer.

And for Tommies their durability combined with damage profile of Lee-Enfields is beyond broken. If you go for MG they just get the lend lease doctrine and get Rangers with phosphorus smoke (Talking about Assault Tommies). Not to mention the SMG Tommy Clown Car.

Then fix that broken stupid doctrine.

If they don't go for the doctrine then they still have the A+ tier MG and solid line infantry with unparalled durability and a superb grenade. (When compared to axis)

So not a A+++ tier HMG as the axis one? Tommies are too durable when you get bolster and I dont think you should be able to 2x carry brens. As for the lee you could look into that and maybe lower the dps a bit.

Only thing that can really face the Tommies are the infamous Obersoldaten but at that point British player is probably dominating the map and has already put his/her Bofors to delay any push at that point.

Dont be absurd. Lots of axis units can function against Tommies. Well UKF are very good a securing and playing one part of the map. So in team games they are very good with the early bofors but they are not uncountable.

The only thing that can counter them is Luchs but it also forces your infantry to be constantly healed by medic packs dropped by Sturmpios thus delaying your mines/weapon upgrades etc.

And that is a fair trade off. Try playing other factions and you will see that the grass aint greener on the other side.

I am totally fine with the transfer of power from Tommies and Vickers to Firefly reload time and Comet viability.

You want to lower UKF AI performance and increase their AT performance? If anything you should move the AI performance on to other AI focused units to balance the faction so they cant just blob and mass tommies.

(Post is a little mixed sorry for that and if any offences, apologies)

no need to be sorry mate. Its your honest opinion.

Since haft of the faction stan above tommy's shoulder, they need the level of power as current for late game. The main problem as i can see up to now is tommy's level of power can come a bit soon.

So, if we cant make 2 infantry units for UK like i proposed before, i suggest a more simple way is to lock 5 man and the second bren behind company CP, by this, sift tommy power more into late game.

Sws HT is 100mp - 15 fuel, OkW and UK both need 10 more fuel from the stat to get SWS as OKW or T1 as UK, but OKW need less MP, and SWS built faster than UKF T1.

In terms of unlocking anti garrison tools,
Event if UKF have T2 at the same time OKW have SWS, OWV already have flame nade which can be use immediately by volk on the front line, while UK have to keep waiting MP for sniper, pit, or waiting muni for wasp.

About 50 call, my point only wrong vs OkV, it still right with all remain faction, and OKW have volk to do all the job.

well there is a difference between a flame thrower and a flame nade, btoh range and cost as the flamer will never cost u more after u built it

The panther is and has always been a TD first with some light AI. What does Ost and OKW get to counter tanks late? Panthers. Now the panther is pricey and I dont think they are OP but its primary function is indeed as a Tank hunter / destroyer.


Dont be absurd. Lots of axis units can function against Tommies. Well UKF are very good a securing and playing one part of the map. So in team games they are very good with the early bofors but they are not uncountable.

You want to lower UKF AI performance and increase their AT performance? If anything you should move the AI performance on to other AI focused units to balance the faction so they cant just blob and mass tommies.

1. Panther is a tank destroyer indeed but not "Tank Destroyer" like Jackson or Su-85 etc.
2. Actually i am pretty sure no early or line infantry can match the british. They are pretty much on par with Obers at Vet2-3ish. (Without LMG's on each side ofc)
3.You got me wrong here i think. Brits severly lack anti tank due to their snare being on engineer, lackluster piat and ridicilous 8 second reloading firefly. But on the other hand they have pretty solid Anti inf. options such as Tommies, double brens, universal carrier, "ack ack" tank, cromwell. So what i suggest is reduce Tommies damage to volks level keep their durability improve anti tank option or even move the snare from engineer to IS.