OST pg question

i am a noob, so i am not saying that i am right about something but looking for some suggestion.
i only play 2v2 and i am talking about 2v2.

since pg can come out without building, there is a strategy among lower rank games(12-14).

2mg > pg shrek > fast ostwind

usually,i go light vehicle against mg spam start,as at the beginning of the game if i go motar and mainline infenty, i can't hold the line and my motar will be forced back.
however,the early Panzershrecks make light vehicle useless. i can't counter with light vehicle any longer.
and they skip all the tech to get the fast ostwind and i can't find the punishment about skip tech.

now, as brit i am even thinking about rush bofor and go semi city,which i don't want to go.

what should i suppose to do as all ally faction?

is it an ok idea that pg can only upgrade Panzershrecks after build t2?
i think i counld be good as pg can still come out earlier but make t2 building a necessary AT building.

You can try rushing an AA halftrack (all Allied factions have one now).
Their long range suppression neutralizes Panzerschrecks. If you micro your AA halftracks correctly, they should be mostly invincible as long as OST doesn't have a Pak 40.

If you suspect an Ostwind rush, you could follow up with an SU-76 or an M10.

Like Sander said, AAHT (as USF at least) is a good option, just remember that MG42s can shred it in a burst or two if you aren't paying attention. In this case it thusly may not be your best solution. For MG spam, then, you're going to need smoke and/or oorah/fire up and grenades. Lots of smoke. With the MG line broken as best as you can, try using your advantage in capping power as long as you can. This should hopefully allow you to rush out a medium tank, which should solve the MG issue permanently, although you will need to screen it religiously with infantry or MGs of your own so it in turn doesnt get raped by shrecks. With any luck you'll have armor supremacy for a while, however, and the shrecks arent as big an issue to mediums unless your opponent is big on mines, or backteched to a snare (pack40 or grens).

I think it's a good idea to lock them behind T2, mostly because T2's priced around having a monopoly on AT.

That 200 MP 20 FU is a big deal. It was different when you had to build it, but now you don't and that really hurts the viability of the T2 units.

Or simply delay early powerful infatry and pace the game around stock mainline infatry and their tech...

2mg > pg shrek > fast ostwind
...
and they skip all the tech to get the fast ostwind and i can't find the punishment about skip tech.

Are the OST players skipping T1 and 2 buildings or just T2? This changes a fair bit.

If they're skipping T1, there's a ton of choices, if they're not, then the 200mp/20f shouldn't really be changing all that much.

what should i suppose to do as all ally faction?

So there's two variations of the T2 skip - one skips T1 and T2, and one skips only T2.

For the early game:

Skipping T1 is very, very risky, and relies heavily on call-ins; usually AGrens, since they are available right away. While strong up close, they have basically zero range power and are quite fragile; just stay at range and you'll be fine.

Not skipping T1 basically results in a normal game, but with a weaker early-mid game, since the OST player will have no vehicles (until T3) and no PAK. Against this build, really just play normally.

Once they actually get to the 'skipping T2' part, the counter is pretty simple: stay at range. PGrens with schrecks are very powerful, but they're also infantry based AT; they're slow, vulnerable and can be suppressed (which makes them basically useless). Like Sander93 said, AAHTs are incredibly powerful here if micro'd well, since they suppress/pin and have a ton of range. Other viable choices are just more MGs, or long-range AI infantry, like M1919 rifles, double-bren Infantry Sections, or Penals/Guards (especially with DP-28s).

It's also important to note all the things the OST player loses by skipping T2:
No 222: that means no chasing low HP LVs, snipers, retreating squads, etc.
No 251: that means no forward reinforcing and no flame-HT to counter garrisoned MGs
No PAK: that means no long-range AT, which means AA-HTs are incredibly effective

Use those weaknesses to your advantage.

I think it's a good idea to lock them behind T2, mostly because T2's priced around having a monopoly on AT.

That 200 MP 20 FU is a big deal. It was different when you had to build it, but now you don't and that really hurts the viability of the T2 units.

I have to disagree with this. Moving PGrens to BP2/T0 was done for two reasons: firstly, to make them available earlier (by 200mp/20f), but ALSO to untie OSTs early game AT from T2. If PGrens required T2 for shrecks, then T2 no longer becomes optional, since OST would have zero counters to LVs without it. That would in turn mean that the move of PGrens to BP2/T0 was basically pointless, since you're only making one or two PGrens available about 40 seconds earlier than before, as the OST player would need to get T2 down anyway.

Or simply delay early powerful infatry and pace the game around stock mainline infatry and their tech...

While I agree, that would mean changing almost every infantry unit in the game. It would be nice, though.

Or simply delay early powerful infatry and pace the game around stock mainline infatry and their tech...

What if your stock infantry is for some reason designed to be competative With elite infantry and their tech means literally nothing because they get fully kitted out with your first tech? Asking hypothetically of course

Your question should be PG+HMG+ optional Ostruppen or Assgren

I'm playing mainly 1vs1 at the moment but AAHT isn't the best option imo even in 2vs2. Yes it does suppress but has a lack of pushing power and too clunksy to be super viable on many maps. Plus AAHT is really bad vs HMGs if they are well positioned.

I rather go T1 + M20 with the support of an HMG. The M20 is faster and more maneuvrable and has smoke. Its killing power is bette than the AAHT and last but not least you get it twice faster on the field.

On my last games vs such strat I'm pretty sure to have force a T2 build + 222 just because I went M20 and was destroying their infantry. I say that because a normal 222 usually hit the field a minute after a M20 but in those matches they were there much later letting me suppose 222 wasn't part of their initial plan.


There is definitively an issue with Pgren hitting the field so early, not only because of shreck but because of their stat vs what kind of mainline infantry they meet at 4 minutes mark. As USF you have at maximum 1 BAR, UKF and Soviet are maybe ok since Penals and IS are stronger but the matchup Ostheer / USF is completely fucked up with the capacity for ostheer to build dual HMGs to stale early game and 4 minutes Pgren.
What's definitively wrong is such strat force you to invest more fuel to effectively counter the pgren while he's saving his own fuel by not building tiers.

i am a noob, so i am not saying that i am right about something but looking for some suggestion.
i only play 2v2 and i am talking about 2v2.

since pg can come out without building, there is a strategy among lower rank games(12-14).

2mg > pg shrek > fast ostwind

usually,i go light vehicle against mg spam start,as at the beginning of the game if i go motar and mainline infenty, i can't hold the line and my motar will be forced back.
however,the early Panzershrecks make light vehicle useless. i can't counter with light vehicle any longer.
and they skip all the tech to get the fast ostwind and i can't find the punishment about skip tech.

now, as brit i am even thinking about rush bofor and go semi city,which i don't want to go.

what should i suppose to do as all ally faction?

is it an ok idea that pg can only upgrade Panzershrecks after build t2?
i think i counld be good as pg can still come out earlier but make t2 building a necessary AT building.

My advice would be this - he just invested 340 manpower and 100 munitions into an AT squad. Invest the same into infantry counters - flame, riflenades, bars. It's only 4 man squad and when focus fired will die/retreat quickly. With light vehicles just don't get too greedy and keep it far. You can absorb a volley and go back for crew repairs. Use it a lot. You have to depleat their health a bit and back off. The next unit or the same after repairs shooting at them will either kill them or make them retreat. you should be generally happy if you see this strat as it is extremely risky for ost. Lucky packhowie shot, grenade or just infantry focused fire may easily kill shrecked pzgren and it's gg.

I have to disagree with this. Moving PGrens to BP2/T0 was done for two reasons: firstly, to make them available earlier (by 200mp/20f), but ALSO to untie OSTs early game AT from T2. If PGrens required T2 for shrecks, then T2 no longer becomes optional, since OST would have zero counters to LVs without it. That would in turn mean that the move of PGrens to BP2/T0 was basically pointless, since you're only making one or two PGrens available about 40 seconds earlier than before, as the OST player would need to get T2 down anyway.

I disagree. PGrens were moved to BP1/T0 to make them hit the field sooner, allowing them to vet up faster. Timig is a big deal, especially in 1v1.

Ostheer T2 is not priced around being optional. The units in T2 are worth their price: they are not worth 200 MP/20 FU plus their price.

Giving T2 its AT monopoly back is one way to to make it worth its price again. If the balance team really is set on making T2 skipping a thing (something I vehemently disagree with) then they need to shift at least 120 MP 10 FU of teching costs away from the T2 building.

Lago crusade against Schrecks, how long will it continue?

i don't see why you need that...you can't really win as OH without t2...maybe at lower ranks.

I think it's a good idea to lock them behind T2, mostly because T2's priced around having a monopoly on AT.

That 200 MP 20 FU is a big deal. It was different when you had to build it, but now you don't and that really hurts the viability of the T2 units.

No other factions have to pay 60 fuel and 300 mp just to get access to AT

Thanks for all the help.

i think soviet t1 m3 will be good against early double mg, than if the enemy skip t2 and go pg.
i can forced than upgrade Panzershrecks with the exist m3 and it will good to go sniper.
as usf i can fast AAHT as you guys suggestted.
as brits sniper can also works , mortar pit with mg is another option.

Your question should be PG+HMG+ optional Ostruppen or Assgren

I'm playing mainly 1vs1 at the moment but AAHT isn't the best option imo even in 2vs2. Yes it does suppress but has a lack of pushing power and too clunksy to be super viable on many maps. Plus AAHT is really bad vs HMGs if they are well positioned.

I rather go T1 + M20 with the support of an HMG. The M20 is faster and more maneuvrable and has smoke. Its killing power is bette than the AAHT and last but not least you get it twice faster on the field.

On my last games vs such strat I'm pretty sure to have force a T2 build + 222 just because I went M20 and was destroying their infantry. I say that because a normal 222 usually hit the field a minute after a M20 but in those matches they were there much later letting me suppose 222 wasn't part of their initial plan.


There is definitively an issue with Pgren hitting the field so early, not only because of shreck but because of their stat vs what kind of mainline infantry they meet at 4 minutes mark. As USF you have at maximum 1 BAR, UKF and Soviet are maybe ok since Penals and IS are stronger but the matchup Ostheer / USF is completely fucked up with the capacity for ostheer to build dual HMGs to stale early game and 4 minutes Pgren.
What's definitively wrong is such strat force you to invest more fuel to effectively counter the pgren while he's saving his own fuel by not building tiers.

i always go m20 against ost, it jsut so great harass their mainline infanty.
222 can never dive for the kill because of rifleman covering and crew bazooka.
AT gun can never catch it because the mobilebility and smoke.
however i didn't catch your process that ost can't go pg whit panzerschreck but have to go back T2.
can you explain more about it?

My advice would be this - he just invested 340 manpower and 100 munitions into an AT squad. Invest the same into infantry counters - flame, riflenades, bars. It's only 4 man squad and when focus fired will die/retreat quickly. With light vehicles just don't get too greedy and keep it far. You can absorb a volley and go back for crew repairs. Use it a lot. You have to depleat their health a bit and back off. The next unit or the same after repairs shooting at them will either kill them or make them retreat. you should be generally happy if you see this strat as it is extremely risky for ost. Lucky packhowie shot, grenade or just infantry focused fire may easily kill shrecked pzgren and it's gg.

i did go weapon upgrade before, but it's kind difficult to manipulate the range. the enemy don't push with panzerschreck pg. they use two mg(one covering the other), and put the latter mg to the front slowing push forward, which make me have no chance catch the mg while the mg is moving.
furthermore, once i use light vehicle to push back the mg, the pg shows up and stay in the mg suppresion area. mg has 45 range but mainline infenty has 35. as long as pg don't rush out i can't do anything to them.
and i can't break mgs one covering the other.

i did notice that this mg strat can only defent a small area, i can always have all the other terrrtory.
but it's so passive that i can only avoid the fight.

i believe i miss something here, so it would be great that you guys point it out.

i always go m20 against ost, it jsut so great harass their mainline infanty.
222 can never dive for the kill because of rifleman covering and crew bazooka.
AT gun can never catch it because the mobilebility and smoke.
however i didn't catch your process that ost can't go pg whit panzerschreck but have to go back T2.
can you explain more about it?

My opponent went 222 to counter the m20 probably because the m20 is an easier target to the 222 than the AAHT. And I don't think that pzshreck are really good vs the M20, I've also face it and more than often shreck are missing at max range, its quite rare to see one salvo fully connecting. The M20 is also more mobile, if you see the shreck squad on the left, just go right.

OP knows too much for being a 'noob'

Lago crusade against Schrecks, how long will it continue? :foreveralone

I like T2.

I don't like seeing it get turned into a brutally inefficient sidetech.

I wish the balance team would learn the difference between more options and more viable options. If you create a new strat that's strictly superior to the two strats you had, you end up with one strat, not three.

T2's AT options were balanced against each other really well. Now that two of them are gated behind 200 MP 20 FU of side tech, the one that isn't is clearly superior to the others.

No other factions have to pay 60 fuel and 300 mp just to get access to AT

Who rushes an anti-tank gun?

Yes, Ostheer's anti-tank tools are later in the tech tree than other factions. But what's the point of a super-early anti-tank gun if there's nothing for it to shoot?

The Pak 40 comes out in time to fight light vehicles. That's what matters.

usually,i go light vehicle against mg spam start,as at the beginning of the game if i go motar and mainline infenty, i can't hold the line and my motar will be forced back.

If OST went early MGs it hardly could force your mortars off, unless you did push recklessness before that happened.

however,the early Panzershrecks make light vehicle useless. i can't counter with light vehicle any longer.
and they skip all the tech to get the fast ostwind and i can't find the punishment about skip tech.

I suggest you not to use exaggeration+opinions, they both dont mix well. A light vehicle is still reliable since its more mobile than Pgrens, you are just forced to avoid their AT squad only. The rest of the map is yours, adapt, improvise, overcome.

Oswtind last buff turned it into a crutch unit, but it doesnt mean the game is over, it just forces you to go ATG with support or do a steep climb into decent mediums, Shermans or M10 as USF, cromwell as UKF or T34/T70+support.
A replay would help a lot to let other see the weak spot and improve it.

is it an ok idea that pg can only upgrade Panzershrecks after build t2?
i think i counld be good as pg can still come out earlier but make t2 building a necessary AT building.

Your point is valid OP, but so is a good suggestion to take gameplay advices. That counts for everyone here posting, no one is game perfect player