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russian armor

Allies Late Game Armor

9 Jul 2019, 08:11 AM
#22
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Not going to close the thread because it may be a legitiment problem for this player. It's not like the majority of the posts in this thread have been even remotely helpful towards OP. :/


I'd love to help new or struggling players, but the way the OP is phrased leads me to suspect he isn't here for advice.
9 Jul 2019, 08:13 AM
#23
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Odds are the forum would have responded more helpfully if the OP had phrased their thread as anything more than a tantrum, yes.
9 Jul 2019, 08:40 AM
#24
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

Not going to close the thread because it may be a legitiment problem for this player. It's not like the majority of the posts in this thread have been even remotely helpful towards OP. :/

Start by narrowing the field of concern from the OP. For example, we don't know what gamemode they're talking about. Jacksons are problematic for example, but they're more prominent in teamgames than 1v1.

What gamemode are you talking about? What are the concerns you have about allied armor? No armor piece is instant win, although some are stronger than others.



:thumb:

I've read OPs post again to see if I missed something. Your good intentions in all honor, but OP is just ranting. The only part that comes close to a discussion point is:
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2019, 09:10 AMhooosh
As for axis heavies (including the panther), they are having an extremely hard time escaping the Range/RoF/Pen/Damage of allied TD, the most offfending one being the Firefly due to its retarded damage and range. Su85 is also broken, with its selfsighting trick and HMG-Like RoF.

This is something that surely can be talked about and there are multiple threads on that subject (one is running just now). It even does not matter if the stuff he describes is objectively correct or not, but the post is just another "Allies OP!" and "Axis OP!" that we don't need. Nothing that would promote a discussion, only very faint and few arguments if at all. People are not helpful because OP does not make a legitimate and honest effort.
9 Jul 2019, 10:00 AM
#25
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

What is a legitimate effort? How would anyone know what are OP original intentions when using those Panthers. I can imagine he is straightly comparing selfspot ability and the best alpha damage vs panthers, but so do experienced players compare blindly allied tanks vs Panthers high armor!

OP sit back and practice a bit with each unit, CoH feels like a war simulator but it's more like a hero rts, each unit is unique and is used uniquely as a consequence, each faction lays out a style, momentum and mentality. They are all fun, but Soviets tanks can't be simply compared to axis ones because of a quite complex balance system.

The forums can give you some feedback, some positive some negative but find yourself an objective way to Express your concerns to get objective answers too. People here have on going discussions and wont bail out their judgement to help newcomers, post a replay and ask for help is the best way, even when you consider you have mastered the game
9 Jul 2019, 10:11 AM
#26
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

I personally find mysterious why the SU85, a tank without a turret has a vision buff ability that locks the firing angle when there is no turret :D
9 Jul 2019, 10:16 AM
#27
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I personally find mysterious why the SU85, a tank without a turret has a vision buff ability that locks the firing angle when there is no turret :D

It gives a one shot advantage against rushing blitz axis tanks. The more important ones have turret so su85 is at disadvantage fighting if it couldn't selfspot
9 Jul 2019, 10:58 AM
#28
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307


It gives a one shot advantage against rushing blitz axis tanks. The more important ones have turret so su85 is at disadvantage fighting if it couldn't selfspot

Nonsense..just excuses..giving an ability that can use all game long is not justified by rushing blitz which happens occasionally. You are supposed to scout with your mortar, it already had free vision or t70 or 7 men conscripts or invincible scout troops.
9 Jul 2019, 18:25 PM
#29
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


Nonsense..just excuses..giving an ability that can use all game long is not justified by rushing blitz which happens occasionally. You are supposed to scout with your mortar, it already had free vision or t70 or 7 men conscripts or invincible scout troops.

Wether you like it or not the game is designed that way, feel free to disagree but nothing will change unless people adopt an adult attitude and a proper thread about su85 selfspot.

How would you give a post-midgame crutch window for allies then? Or do you want PzIV to become I WIN buttons?
9 Jul 2019, 18:35 PM
#30
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I personally find mysterious why the SU85, a tank without a turret has a vision buff ability that locks the firing angle when there is no turret :D


That's because it locks the vision angle, not firing? You cant see outside of that narrow area which gets bonus vision. It also slows the tank down....

It's a bonus with incredibly clear and balanced trade-offs, if you werent so biased youd probably be aware of that

10 Jul 2019, 01:43 AM
#31
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307



That's because it locks the vision angle, not firing? You cant see outside of that narrow area which gets bonus vision. It also slows the tank down....

It's a bonus with incredibly clear and balanced trade-offs, if you werent so biased youd probably be aware of that



You are confusing 1v1 situation, let's say SU85 vs P4, in which the trade-off you talk about will help a p4 coming from the side. But in real life games this is almost never happening since soviets have those "balanced" satchels so going close to the SU85 is guaranteed p4 death. Even without the satchels, just a regular AT nade will stop the p4 giving time to the SU85 to rotate.
But the range increase it's ALWAYS useful !
In all my games against soviets i never saw an SU85 being hindered by that ability, but i felt the range increase every game. Even if you flank it , he can just disable the ability :D
10 Jul 2019, 08:09 AM
#32
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Focus sight has a long cooldown and mobility nerfs that directly redice the ease with which an SU can back up out of the range of an attacking AT gun or panther or aggressive offmap

It is a good ability with meaningful drawbacks. Drawbacks so severe that it demands even casual players toggle focus sight on with some thought. Generally its much better to spot with other units, but it can be a great help.

Nowhere near as strong as Target Weak Point, though. Even after it got five rounds of small nerfs.

(Its also not a range increase. Purely a sight one in a specific cone)
10 Jul 2019, 09:59 AM
#33
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Focus sight reduced speed, severely reduces sight to the firing cone.
And the ablity has a cooldown.

As said it has enough meaningfull drawbacks to keep balanced.
Having other units spot for it is still generaly better.

As for target weakpoint. I rarely see it used anymore since it doesnt stun lock anymore ( wich is bs that it could before ) maybe i am missing it but it seems it a undesiarable ability now that its no longer so strong/op.
10 Jul 2019, 15:28 PM
#34
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


Nonsense..just excuses..giving an ability that can use all game long is not justified by rushing blitz which happens occasionally. You are supposed to scout with your mortar, it already had free vision or t70 or 7 men conscripts or invincible scout troops.


then give the SU85 stealth ability and a bonus when firing from stealth....
10 Jul 2019, 15:29 PM
#35
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

Focus sight reduced speed, severely reduces sight to the firing cone.
And the ablity has a cooldown.

As said it has enough meaningfull drawbacks to keep balanced.
Having other units spot for it is still generaly better.

As for target weakpoint. I rarely see it used anymore since it doesnt stun lock anymore ( wich is bs that it could before ) maybe i am missing it but it seems it a undesiarable ability now that its no longer so strong/op.


Doesn't it still stun when used by the PAK40?
10 Jul 2019, 16:04 PM
#36
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jul 2019, 15:29 PMGrumpy


Doesn't it still stun when used by the PAK40?

there are 5 different versions of TWP.
10 Jul 2019, 17:09 PM
#37
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


But the range increase it's ALWAYS useful !
In all my games against soviets i never saw an SU85 being hindered by that ability, but i felt the range increase every game. Even if you flank it , he can just disable the ability :D


What range increase? Can you actually learn how the ability works before you argue its overpowered? Might be a good idea...
10 Jul 2019, 23:49 PM
#38
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307



What range increase? Can you actually learn how the ability works before you argue its overpowered? Might be a good idea...

My bad..i thought it increases range but it's just "sight range". Got it. Today i learned something haha
11 Jul 2019, 00:35 AM
#39
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Most of your concerns got covered already (range increase/time to disable ability etc.), but there are two aspects left:

But in real life games this is almost never happening since soviets have those "balanced" satchels so going close to the SU85 is guaranteed p4 death.

1) Satchels: Of course they are strong and they will criple your tank seriously, but they are very short ranged and Penals have no sprint ability. If you see them you can cancel your attack in time. And its the same vice versa. If you flank a Stug with a T34 for example you always have to count in that there are Shreks, a PAK or/and Grens with snare nearby. Flanking is always risk versus reward. But of course you have supporting units too, which can support your attack.


Even without the satchels, just a regular AT nade will stop the p4 giving time to the SU85 to rotate.

2) Conscript AT-Grenade: AT snares don't damage the motor of full health medium or heavy tanks anymore, luckily that was changed a while ago. So AT-Grenade is completely harmless unless you don't get hit by the SU-85, a nearby ZIS or another tank first.
11 Jul 2019, 00:53 AM
#40
avatar of Jean Bart

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2019, 09:10 AMhooosh
So after hundreds of creeping Buffs and "QoL" adjustments, we are facing a situation where feilding any kind of axis armor past the 8 minute mark will be pure stupidity.

A PIV will be easily surrended by T34/76s or snuffed by T3485s/Cromwells one on one. The stupid damage output from Jacksons and Fireflies make it only good for sucidical scouting dives.

As for axis heavies (including the panther), they are having an extremely hard time escaping the Range/RoF/Pen/Damage of allied TD, the most offfending one being the Firefly due to its retarded damage and range. Su85 is also broken, with its selfsighting trick and HMG-Like RoF.

Penals AT nade. Which is something nobody asked for, and is only an exersice in sick creativity and biased imagination.

Not to mention the fact that all allied factions enjoy highly practical and effective AT nades plus cheap and super accurate HAT. Something needs to be done, the sooner the better.



Your arguments make no sense. They should not be able to penetrate your Panzer IV. It would be better to buff the T34s, because they seem to be quite useless in mid game.Also they are just good in combination with some Command point abilities.

Suggestion:
- increase the of the T34s
- add a higher ramming radius
- lower the MP cost of them / or increase their infantry and splash damage
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