Sturmpio needs some changes

They're Obers without the LMG though. Are they that much better than PGrens in that state?

I'd be more concerned about the Obers already being Vet 2 when the LMG unlocks.

If they ever had LMG locked behind different tier then they are, you'd see the REEE about their cost efficiency about 8 seconds after someone built them.

They are priced as they are, so the cost is split between 2 resources instead of massive MP dump they were in the past, they aren't balanced nor supposed to work without upgrade.

I disagree. Splitting the lmg and the Obers would be the best way to have them sooner. They still bleed heavily and are AI specialists so there is that...
Their rifles would be well suited to coming earlier as they are quite accurate. They would be Tommies on steroids.

If they ever had LMG locked behind different tier then they are, you'd see the REEE about their cost efficiency about 8 seconds after someone built them.

They are priced as they are, so the cost is split between 2 resources instead of massive MP dump they were in the past, they aren't balanced nor supposed to work without upgrade.

I checked out the numbers and they're comparable to Penal Troops. Similar survivability versus small arms, similar short range damage, about 50% better long range damage.

If you hypothetically did in Battlegroup, I reckon they'd be decent but not game-changing during the midgame.

The reward for weathering their brutal reinforcement cost through the mid-game would be pre-vetted Obers when the SPHQ drops.

Very much agree. Or in s similar line of thought, make volks the starting unit and straight up buff sturms. I feel like it would be okay for them to have some serious firepower if you didn't get a free one

+1

Sturm can not be a starting unit and OKW wont fall apart in any way. I dont want 2 shrek pios, they are not Pzgrens to begin with. It would make sense if Spios could store the AT like they do with the sweeper.

Somehow i would love to see this starting unit swap with a volks stg/mp40 upgrade swap and remove/sidetech nades.
This changes OKW to 3 openings:
Standart rifle inf: unupgunned volks with nade sidetech (less investment for a quick tech)
Urban combat: upgunned Mp40 volks + spios with lavanades sidetech (the most expensive of the 3)
AI/AT balanced: volks+spios with AT+raketen (medium investment for a reliable early force)

I think a small RA buff to vet 3-4 sturmpios would be enough. Btw I already tried the whole Battlegroup Obers thing with a personal mod. It's not as broken as it sounds

+1

Sturm can not be a starting unit and OKW wont fall apart in any way. I dont want 2 shrek pios, they are not Pzgrens to begin with. It would make sense if Spios could store the AT like they do with the sweeper.

Somehow i would love to see this starting unit swap with a volks stg/mp40 upgrade swap and remove/sidetech nades.
This changes OKW to 3 openings:
Standart rifle inf: unupgunned volks with nade sidetech (less investment for a quick tech)
Urban combat: upgunned Mp40 volks + spios with lavanades sidetech (the most expensive of the 3)
AI/AT balanced: volks+spios with AT+raketen (medium investment for a reliable early force)

If lava nades are on sturms I don't think a side tech would be needed. They are expensive and squishy enough that over saturation wouldn't be an issue. What's more is I think having access to an easy, early anti garrison for OKW is needed, and on a special unit that would be ok. Not so much on cheap already effective mainline infantry tho.. Cons at least have the excuse of being pretty trash

Axis players: TOMMIES OP!
Also axis players: Lets put in T1 infantry that's considerably stronger then tommies, doesn't have a weakness of short range dps being too low while outperforming them at long range, scales better and got much better abilities, because reasons.

While obers arriving earlier would be a good thing to explore, they -are- high tier, very powerful infantry, not something that belongs in early game.

90 % of their dps is on the mg 34, they only have 1 dps over IS without it and have 0.7 RA but they do cost 340, so they would be the long range equivalent of PG without sherck

ukf

Sounds like a stupid idea when Obers take 185 fuel to be unlocked. You will never surrive the first 15 minutes without STGs. K98 Volks get destroyed so hard by 5 men Tommies, Penals, Guards, Shocks, Bar Riflemen, etc etc

To take away STGs from OKW means to kill the entire faction. No way around it.

I would disagree

Most top players barely prioritize StG even against penals or upgraded Tommies. It much easier to put the muni into flame nades and win engagements early

Then there's the whole mech truck P2 meta and throw in the odd MG you don't need StG at all. Actually watch some Von Ivan and he puts all his muni into memes like golliaths instead and still volks hold the line

Volks are good due to their cheapness and utility not StG

90 % of their dps is on the mg 34, they only have 1 dps over IS without it and have 0.7 RA but they do cost 340, so they would be the long range equivalent of PG without sherck

The problem with obers is once you get a squad or two to vet 2 and above they can solo anything with two legs

They are the premium AI specialists so any earlier timing would need their vet looked at

Axis players: TOMMIES OP!
Also axis players: Lets put in T1 infantry that's considerably stronger then tommies, doesn't have a weakness of short range dps being too low while outperforming them at long range, scales better and got much better abilities, because reasons.

While obers arriving earlier would be a good thing to explore, they -are- high tier, very powerful infantry, not something that belongs in early game.

tbh I'm happy to see anything that isn't volksvolksvolks constantly.

I am kind of tired having to rely only upon Volks as their only choice of infantry unit.

It is always Volks. Trying to even use Sturmpio does not work as well due to its lacking versatility and endurance on the battlefield.

Volks are indeed pretty shit without STG upgrade. It is like nearly having to rely on Cons although you have a weapon upgrade and without the need of teching for nades. Yet, they are your main and only choice! Without upgrade, they perform like Conscripts.
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Obers comes too late that I usually hardly even get the possibility to acquire the unit. It should be more accessible

I think they should be available in T0 but MG upgrade becomes accessible after 2 Bases built

or maybe after 1 Base built and 1 Truck (mobile truck)


Maybe a revamp for Obers since they are elite and should not really begin with all having K98.

Obers have for starters have 2 K98 and 2 G43. LMG upgrade becomes only accessible after 2 bases built. At least least they would have some impact but not as strong an impact if you have to compare Sturmpio or Pzgrens close-mid range.

K98 is simply the same thing as getting a default JLI (Jager light inf) squad. Obers I think needs some interesting revamp rather than a mild or dull K98 set.
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Other factions you can easily blend in with other infantry units due to their proper functions and versatility.

I think getting Obers early should not be a problem. I mean, they hardly decimate infantry unless they are vet 2 or 3 and with LMG only. Without MG, they are pretty much useless or not as potent.

I like what many of you suggested with weapon changes and revamps of Volks and Sturmpio, getting different weapons and their change in timing.

In terms of diversity, OKW is rather mild or boring. Your choices are always limited! It always Volks for AI and just Raketenwerfer AT only. Other factions have more alternatives. Trying to rely upon anything else would be a downfall as OKW simply. It is nearly impossible to improvise compared to any other faction. Like trying to go Med in 1v1, going Sturmpio instead of Volks, Sturmpio AT instead of Rak, and that never goes well because of its lacking reliability and capabilities.

Teching needs some kind of changes.

The problem with obers is once you get a squad or two to vet 2 and above they can solo anything with two legs

They are the premium AI specialists so any earlier timing would need their vet looked at

why tho ? they cost 340 mp

If you talk about Doctrine Infantry units. They come around latest 2-3 CP.

Obersoldaten on the other hand, comes around like 8-10 CP. What is this BS. Their arrival is terrible and unbalanced. Why the hell do they come so late for a default unit!

It should be accessible around the time of 2 CP like most elite units and doctrine units arrive!

...
They are the premium AI specialists so any earlier timing would need their vet looked at

you just described what the actual game is. There is no real conclusion.
As it is now, obers not only are sort of a meme, but their oportunity window is literally negative, because their timing is paired with AI mediums, heavy AoE damage and TD fights.

It is far worse for a stock unit to not have a chance to be present ingame than being choosed not to be used.

Obers have the exact same issue than Doctrinal M10, but at least M10 IS doctrinal

To put Obers into a secondary mainline AI infantry like penals sounds fair, since no faction can handle to mass volks, sturms and obers. It is a MP strain

you just described what the actual game is. There is no real conclusion.
As it is now, obers not only are sort of a meme, but their oportunity window is literally negative, because their timing is paired with AI mediums, heavy AoE damage and TD fights.

It is far worse for a stock unit to not have a chance to be present ingame than being choosed not to be used.

Obers have the exact same issue than Doctrinal M10, but at least M10 IS doctrinal

To put Obers into a secondary mainline AI infantry like penals sounds fair, since no faction can handle to mass volks, sturms and obers. It is a MP strain

dont obers have some sort of multiplier that makes them more venerable to AOE attacks?

But obers coming at t1 sounds way to early, even without the upgrade. And for the people saying remove STG's and make obers come out earlier, that's such as stupid idea as OKW will be FORCED to rely and getting obers out EVERY GAME as volks without stg's will get trashed on.

Right now, volks are performing for cost as proved previously by Jae for jett, and going obers is optional if you want that extra AI power. The solution u guys have will make things worse

Obers without their LMG34s are surprisingly balanced units against Allied infantry before adding in their own slot weapons performance wise. Their timing and cost have never really been in line, however.

The old Stormtroopers were similar in that fashion.

And you know, I've found it rather silly that both axis armies seem largely unable to throw a goddamn potato masher without bundling them together on an extremely latecoming or already effective close range unit.