Sturmpio needs some changes

OKW starter Sturmpio units is undeniably a strong unit. Everyone knows that and are aware of that fact.

The problem is, later on becomes a rather unreliable combatant unit. It does not have any alternatives in terms of proper purchasable equipment, only the "repair package".

AT Panzershrek upgrade which costs 70 ammo, is the least used and the least effective AT upgrade in game. The fact its description has not been changed as well as to match its performances according to how the other factions performs has not been unchanged. It's current performance is lackluster as it has 2/5ths of the efficiency compared to any other AT infantry unit user!

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Here is a test I have conducted. The Comparison between Sturmpio and Penlas. Simple test.


Penals 300 manpower, 6 man, AT package 60 ammo (2 PTRS in addition to Satchel Snare).

Sturmpio 300 manpower, 4 man, AT package 70 ammo (only 1 Panzershrek + cold immunity, does that even matter now!) Results:

For 60 ammo, it does 2 to 3 times more efficient than the 70 ammo upgrade of Sturmpio.

Reasons being. Within the 9 second period.

Penals would do 240 damage
while
Sturmpio does only 120 damage

Plus Penals have snare that does more damage than within a 9 second period. I think Satchel does around 300 damage. The point is, they can in addition stun a vehicle while Sturmpio cant.

And 9 seconds is a lot of precious time in this game and Sturmpio does not exactly meet the requirements of a proper purchasable "AT unit package".

It needs improvements.
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My ideas are:

Either, give it another Pzshrek

or

Remove Panzershrek for 2 Panzerbursche and a regular snare (snare that removes stun nade)!

Here is an old forum related to this:https://www.coh2.org/topic/55413/panzerschreck-usage-on-sturmpios

Nothing has been changed thus far! Change it please Devs! This a pressing issue as it has not been fixed after how long and how obvious this unit performs in terms of AT!
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AT is not the only problem.

Veterancy is another issue.

It scales terribly which makes it an unreliable infantry units. Veterancy is meant to help scale in combat but it does not work properly.

Usually the Volks that comes after the Sturmpio. They Vet 5 when Sturmpio is still on Vet 2. That needs changing. Vet 1 does not funcition since there is no changes/improvements.

In fact some units in OKW have Veterancy problems. I going to publish a list now but I am certain that some of you are aware of this fact, some units taking longer than expected/anticipated!
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In Conclusion. This unit, Sturmpio does not require a buff. Simply a fix, a fix or improvement. To spicen up, give proper diversity.

As far as this unit performs and with what utility it has currently, it is the least reliable unit on the field.

I want to have the ability to use a mobile AT unit just as I have the option with any other faction. Sturmpio AT is currently lackluster, waste of ammo, with hardly any effect!

I want it to be a viable option. I am sure everyone can agree on that fact!

If the Devs dont intend to fix this AT issue that Sturmpio suffers. Remove it than for "Flamethrower" for an easy fix! I dont like the idea of "Flamethrower" but something to have an impact on the field like other building units do as it scales on!

Not just repair impact (which is the the best repair unit) in game, but the ability to also take on any other desired roles such as the AT which needs fixing!

It needs to have an impact like others factions "AT infantry unit"!

They could stand to scale a little better. They were designed for a time when Volks upgraded to Panzershrecks.

Honestly Sturmpionierr have one of the most interesting transitions from a strong push unit at the beginning to a utility unit (repair, mines, sweeping and light AT) in the late game.
OKWs early AT deficit is one thing, but I don't think that Sturmpios should be the first factor to fix that.
They do repair very quickly when upgraded (only Brits come near this) and still have some okay firepower in a 1v1 on the flanks in the mid to late game.
I think they are fine for their price.

It needs to have an impact like others factions "AT infantry unit"!

Sturmpioneers aren't an "AT infantry unit". There job is mines, repairs, sweeping and CQC combat. The single Panzershreck sidegrade is meant as a LV deterrent. PTRS Penals are the only AT Soviet T1 has so it's not comparable to OKW at all.

Sturmpioneer veterancy requirements are indeed too high but I doubt that lowering them without adjust the base stats is a good idea because making the unit any better could easily make it OP.

You also forget that Sturms have the highest repair speed in COH2. That´s a major advantage in mid- to late game.

No they are perfectly fine just attack them long range thats all

Sturmpioneers aren't an "AT infantry unit". There job is mines, repairs, sweeping and CQC combat. The single Panzershreck sidegrade is meant as a LV deterrent. PTRS Penals are the only AT Soviet T1 has so it's not comparable to OKW at all.

Sturmpioneer veterancy requirements are indeed too high but I doubt that lowering them without adjust the base stats is a good idea because making the unit any better could easily make it OP.

You also forget that Sturms have the highest repair speed in COH2. That´s a major advantage in mid- to late game.

Thx for the repairing reminder.

I just do not think repair should be the only impact (which is the the best repair unit) in game as Sturmpio role, but to have the ability to also take on any other desired roles such as the AT which needs fixing!

Any changes to sturms imo should be accompanied with accessibility buff and a starting out power nerf.

I'd see them made cheaper and start with worse weapons but able to specialize after a truck.
Say 260mp but with 2 mp40s and 2 stgs
Buy an assault package that buffs the mp40s to elite stgs, buffs target size, unlocks flame nade

Support package gives increased build, repair speeds, reduces cost of med kits slightly, grants sweeper and cold immunity (lel)

at specialized could be a Shrek and a snare and also unlock tellers and vehicle detection to solidify them as light counters. Maybe slap an extra Shrek into the package for cheap cheap once schwere is up?

This makes them better across the board at what the player needs them for without making the first engagement too laughably strong.

Also gives an alternative muni sink to pimped out volks

Any changes to sturms imo should be accompanied with accessibility buff and a starting out power nerf.

I'd see them made cheaper and start with worse weapons but able to specialize after a truck.
Say 260mp but with 2 mp40s and 2 stgs
Buy an assault package that buffs the mp40s to elite stgs, buffs target size, unlocks flame nade

Support package gives increased build, repair speeds, reduces cost of med kits slightly, grants sweeper and cold immunity (lel)

at specialized could be a Shrek and a snare and also unlock tellers and vehicle detection to solidify them as light counters. Maybe slap an extra Shrek into the package for cheap cheap once schwere is up?

This makes them better across the board at what the player needs them for without making the first engagement too laughably strong.

Also gives an alternative muni sink to pimped out volks

this, remove stg from volks and flame nade for mp 40, but make the stg upgrade for sturm free with a long build time unless the flame nades come for free, but don't give them snares, teller mine is just fine

Any changes to sturms imo should be accompanied with accessibility buff and a starting out power nerf.

Very much agree. Or in s similar line of thought, make volks the starting unit and straight up buff sturms. I feel like it would be okay for them to have some serious firepower if you didn't get a free one

Any changes to sturms imo should be accompanied with accessibility buff and a starting out power nerf.

I'd see them made cheaper and start with worse weapons but able to specialize after a truck.
Say 260mp but with 2 mp40s and 2 stgs
Buy an assault package that buffs the mp40s to elite stgs, buffs target size, unlocks flame nade

Support package gives increased build, repair speeds, reduces cost of med kits slightly, grants sweeper and cold immunity (lel)

at specialized could be a Shrek and a snare and also unlock tellers and vehicle detection to solidify them as light counters. Maybe slap an extra Shrek into the package for cheap cheap once schwere is up?

This makes them better across the board at what the player needs them for without making the first engagement too laughably strong.

Also gives an alternative muni sink to pimped out volks

I agree with you, particularly too on the first sentence.

It would be great have proper accessibility rather than one option only as it is currently.

Other factions can decide however they want their units wants to be but not OKW. Whether that ranges from wanting it to be a more AI to AT focused unit (or vice versa). OKW feels rather limited in terms of accessibility and proper choices.

Vet needs some sort of adjustments also.

I feel OKW has a real issue when it also comes down to veterancy, being broken and also undermined.

Bring back cold tech, sturms having mobility in a storm was an interesting mechanic

this, remove stg from volks and flame nade for mp 40,

This is such a braindead idea. How is OKW going to deal with long range maps? K98 Volks vs double LMG Brens? K98 Volks vs Bar/LMG Riflemen? So you need like 3 Volks to fight one upgraded Infantry Section?

This is such a braindead idea. How is OKW going to deal with long range maps? K98 Volks vs double LMG Brens? K98 Volks vs Bar/LMG Riflemen? So you need like 3 Volks to fight one upgraded Infantry Section?

lmg obers will deal with those, while u use volks to flank with mp40s, btw since stg would be removed a buff to their vet would be needed, maybe an 30 % accuracy buff at vet 3

lmg obers will deal with those, while u use volks to flank with mp40s

Sounds like a stupid idea when Obers take 185 fuel to be unlocked. You will never surrive the first 15 minutes without STGs. K98 Volks get destroyed so hard by 5 men Tommies, Penals, Guards, Shocks, Bar Riflemen, etc etc

To take away STGs from OKW means to kill the entire faction. No way around it.

Sounds like a stupid idea when Obers take 185 fuel to be unlocked. You will never surrive the first 15 minutes without STGs. K98 Volks get destroyed so hard by 5 men Tommies, Penals, Guards, Shocks, Bar Riflemen, etc etc

To take away STGs from OKW means to kill the entire faction. No way around it.

The cheapest squad in that list is 30mp more, just so you are aware. Not even counting the 35 fuel for the 5 man Tommies and the fuel and munitions for BAR rifles. Tell us again why 250mp unit with 60 mu should even be comparable to those, some elite and over 300mp squads?
Se THAT is precisely the issue. Volks SHOULDN'T be putting up a fight against something lick fu king shocks.
Make Obers more accessible
Make volks preform PER THEIR COST.
There is no reason for a cheap unit to have an undroppable, good on the move and "buff damage at all ranges" weapon for the low low tech cost of "playing the game and trying to get tanks out"



I would have sturms be the early punch. Cheaper as outlined earlier and flexible in role.
Volks are to flesh out the lines and provide volume of fire (no, they are not there to counter much more expensive elite infantry, despite what their 10mp more than cons might suggest)
OKW player specializes their tier to hold ground or take initiative depending on playstyle /map control
Obers come next to swing the initiative or add more ounch
Then tanks.

Again, volks SHOULD NOT be the answer to elite or kitted out infantry. Cons struggle against blood upgunned grens at the same mp price, why for the love of God shouldn't volks be struggling against more expensive infantry with extra fuel and extra munitions thrown at them?

The cheapest squad in that list is 30mp more, just so you are aware. Not even counting the 35 fuel for the 5 man Tommies and the fuel and munitions for BAR rifles. Tell us again why 250mp unit with 60 mu should even be comparable to those, some elite and over 300mp squads?
Se THAT is precisely the issue. Volks SHOULDN'T be putting up a fight against something lick fu king shocks.
Make Obers more accessible
Make volks preform PER THEIR COST.
There is no reason for a cheap unit to have an undroppable, good on the move and "buff damage at all ranges" weapon for the low low tech cost of "playing the game and trying to get tanks out"



I would have sturms be the early punch. Cheaper as outlined earlier and flexible in role.
Volks are to flesh out the lines and provide volume of fire (no, they are not there to counter much more expensive elite infantry, despite what their 10mp more than cons might suggest)
OKW player specializes their tier to hold ground or take initiative depending on playstyle /map control
Obers come next to swing the initiative or add more ounch
Then tanks.

Again, volks SHOULD NOT be the answer to elite or kitted out infantry. Cons struggle against blood upgunned grens at the same mp price, why for the love of God shouldn't volks be struggling against more expensive infantry with extra fuel and extra munitions thrown at them?

In terms of raw combat power STG Volks are significantly worse than double bar riflemen and upgraded infantry sections. They have no chance against Shocks or Guards either. So your entire rant is based on something that isn't real.

If you ever happen to play OKW vs UKF you will understand why it´s absolutly not possible to take STGs away from them when they already get destroyed so hard even with STGs.

In terms of raw combat power STG Volks are significantly worse than double bar riflemen and upgraded infantry sections. They have no chance against Shocks or Guards either. So your entire rant is based on something that isn't real.

If you ever happen to play OKW vs UKF you will understand why it´s absolutly not possible to take STGs away from them when they already get destroyed so hard even with STGs.

It is assumed that any changes are not the FINAL changes.
As said and agreed Ed upon by many, Obers should come earlier.
And yes, volks are definitely worse than doubled up WFA but it's not simply about raw stats it's about effeciency. Not having to do anything but try and get tanks to get a fully kitted out squad vs finding timing and getting to base and blah blah blah goes a long way. Being able to keep pressure up goes a long way. Being able to seize the initiative from the start and then coast on power spiking cheap infantry goes a long way.

There is no reason volks vet can't be looked at to help them scale better but stgs are not the answer. They are a poorly designed cop out.

Sounds like a stupid idea when Obers take 185 fuel to be unlocked. You will never surrive the first 15 minutes without STGs. K98 Volks get destroyed so hard by 5 men Tommies, Penals, Guards, Shocks, Bar Riflemen, etc etc

To take away STGs from OKW means to kill the entire faction. No way around it.

move ober to tier 1 and unlock lmg after tier 4

move ober to tier 1 and unlock lmg after tier 4

Axis players: TOMMIES OP!
Also axis players: Lets put in T1 infantry that's considerably stronger then tommies, doesn't have a weakness of short range dps being too low while outperforming them at long range, scales better and got much better abilities, because reasons.

While obers arriving earlier would be a good thing to explore, they -are- high tier, very powerful infantry, not something that belongs in early game.

Axis players: TOMMIES OP!
Also axis players: Lets put in T1 infantry that's considerably stronger then tommies, doesn't have a weakness of short range dps being too low while outperforming them at long range, scales better and got much better abilities, because reasons.

While obers arriving earlier would be a good thing to explore, they -are- high tier, very powerful infantry, not something that belongs in early game.

They're Obers without the LMG though. Are they that much better than PGrens in that state?

I'd be more concerned about the Obers already being Vet 2 when the LMG unlocks.