In team games, light tanks are useless
Can you prove it somehow?
I have already said above - a large number of AT guns, which instantly destroy the light tank. Lynx, T-70 in team games? Say goodbye to him in most cases in the first battle. But you spent the fuel and gave the enemy an advantage.
15 minute Tiger/Tiger Ace in 4v4
20 Jun 2019, 12:37 PM
#21
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
20 Jun 2019, 12:41 PM
#22
Posts: 110
In team games, light tanks are useless
Can you prove it somehow?
I have already said above - a large number of AT guns, which instantly destroy the light tank. Lynx, T-70 in team games? Say goodbye to him in most cases in the first battle. But you spent the fuel and gave the enemy an advantage.
I've played a ton of games where not just T70 or Luchs were useful, but G-d's forsaken M20 and 222 were on good spot.
Tank is not useless if there is AT gun.
20 Jun 2019, 12:45 PM
#23
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
The problem is:
Many people in 4vs4 skip as allies light vehicles to get fast arty or tank out.
Also many people just camp, when they have half the map, which is also bad idea now.
--> As allies get vehicles out and push.
And it depends on the map.
On Steppe i don't care for a tiger rush for example. But you can't do that anyway there. Same on redball.
Where this tactic works well is:
liene forest, vielsam and lanzerath ambush. Because there you have a save fuel income.
But yes we need to make 1 more stuff to avoid this fast rush.
The balance team is thinking atm.
But the plan was to get away from CP needed.
Well, it's either make counters better by performance or availability (which would be horrible for the rest of the gameplay) or add additional time to the heavy tank. This could be a long build time (2-3 minutes) or additional cost by directly increasing the cost of the tank (which would make only the first tank perform cost-effective) or a side-tech that enables heavies.
I advocate for the build time. The Tiger etc are priced okay-ish to their performance. And since resource income is heavily depending on the match mode, altering the build cost will have next to no effect in 4v4 while completely screwing 1v1. Build time is equal in all modes
20 Jun 2019, 12:51 PM
#24
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
I advocate for the build time.
+1
Build time would be a good solution. Now heavies could come earlier than before but not at 15 min mark.
20 Jun 2019, 12:55 PM
#25
Posts: 366
So in think game we are fairly even throughout the game so the ace really caught them off guard.
Unfortunately, not sure if connection some how timed out or a bug. I completely lost control of the ace and all my other units.
I have to say, elite troops is a truly dope commander now with the g43s and stun grenades for pg and storm-troopers.
Edit: Considering the ace abilities activated, possibly was the connection...
20 Jun 2019, 13:16 PM
#26
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
So in think game we are fairly even throughout the game so the ace really caught them off guard.
Watched the replay. It was obvious to the Soviet players you had Elite Troops (G43 Storms, Stun Grenades) and that a Tiger Ace rush could be expected because you didn't build any vehicles. They had plenty of fuel to get an SU-85 by the time you called in the Ace, and would've had enough for a second one not long after.
Yet they both chose to build KV-8s. They badly misplayed; doing their own thing instead of adapting to the signals and not coordinating. In my opinion, it's okay for a fast heavy to punish these builds.
I'm not saying the Tiger timings are absolutely fine, I personally think they probably need a ~100s build time to ease the shock factor and put the average Tiger/Ace at 17-20min, but the timing in matches like this isn't the problem. The enemy just wasn't prepared when they could've been. A Brummbar rush would've also caused them significant problems in this scenario.
20 Jun 2019, 13:19 PM
#27
Posts: 45
Permanently BannedI got an idea..
How about the community patchers stop using the live game as their testing guinea pigs especially for one side only tipping the balance so unfair?
Or or how about they actually look at what they put in the game and how it works with balance..
(ostheer commander is blatantly op lets be real here, if soviets had 0cp PPSH cons, penals with smokes and HF point and a IS-2 ace with t-34/85 in the same doctrine everyone would be crying)
How about the community patchers stop using the live game as their testing guinea pigs especially for one side only tipping the balance so unfair?
Or or how about they actually look at what they put in the game and how it works with balance..
(ostheer commander is blatantly op lets be real here, if soviets had 0cp PPSH cons, penals with smokes and HF point and a IS-2 ace with t-34/85 in the same doctrine everyone would be crying)
20 Jun 2019, 13:23 PM
#28
Posts: 2066
Build time would be the obvious thing to consider when changing anything. But, it is now a very delicate situation. Mess too much with it and render it useless for 1v1 due to timing. I haven't found it too much of a nuisance when rushed in 2v2.
Kappa
20 Jun 2019, 13:25 PM
#29
Posts: 366
Watched the replay. It was obvious to the Soviet players you had Elite Troops (G43 Storms, Stun Grenades) and that a Tiger Ace rush could be expected because you didn't build any vehicles. They had plenty of fuel to get an SU-85 by the time you called in the Ace, and would've had enough for a second one not long after.
Yet they both chose to build KV-8s. They badly misplayed; doing their own thing instead of adapting to the signals and not coordinating.
I'm not saying the Tiger timings are absolutely fine, I personally think they probably need a ~100s build time to ease the shock factor and put the average Tiger/Ace at 17-20min, but the timing in matches like this isn't the problem. The enemy just wasn't prepared when they could've been. A Brummbar rush would've also caused them significant problems in this scenario.
Yeah, they fuked up. To be honest after 5 minutes I knew what type of people I was up against hence the rush. I guess this is a testament that elite troops is a decent commander again and how effective g43s are (especially against penals).
Sure you saw the ace dancing around at the end. Im just going to put it down as lag.
20 Jun 2019, 13:27 PM
#30
Posts: 110
I got an idea..
How about the community patchers stop using the live game as their testing guinea pigs especially for one side only tipping the balance so unfair?
Or or how about they actually look at what they put in the game and how it works with balance..
(ostheer commander is blatantly op lets be real here, if soviets had 0cp PPSH cons, penals with smokes and HF point and a IS-2 ace with t-34/85 in the same doctrine everyone would be crying)
Soviets have penals undoctrinally (that's already a reason to cry for somebody, who likes crying like you just did)
and already has amazing commander with call-in IS-2, T-34-85, radio intercept (what you spoke about "biatantly op"?), self-repair and skillplanes. Why ostheer cannot have a commander with the same level of efficiency?
20 Jun 2019, 13:44 PM
#31
Posts: 1484
Yes we need a hot fix for this early Tigers. Right now every game has been like this and it is just one sided.
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20 Jun 2019, 13:51 PM
#33
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
Soviets have penals undoctrinally (that's already a reason to cry for somebody, who likes crying like you just did)
and already has amazing commander with call-in IS-2, T-34-85, radio intercept (what you spoke about "biatantly op"?), self-repair and skillplanes. Why ostheer cannot have a commander with the same level of efficiency?
Drawing in the penal card is nothing but humorous when you play a faction with the best MG at t0 with the price of the worst MG in the game and PG's arriving super early now alongside potent mainline which Soviets are missing.
"Amazing commander". Did you just really call it an amazing commander? Its so amazing it never sees play in high tier games because its missing good call-in units which incase u didnt get yet, Soviets rely on.Less so than before but still do. Radio intercept <--- since when was this OP? maybe in the 4k rank games you play it is OP.
It is not the same level of efficiency, it's a better level of efficiency. Tiger Ace is also arguably better than IS-2 and doesnt have a drunk gunner who misses 9/10 the time. Only selling point of it is the armor, which is hardly a sellin point at all at that cost.
You do also realize soviet skillplanes only attack infantry and do minimal damage since the nerfs and get shot down in mere seconds if any AA even looks their way? 222's and ostwinds take care of them fast, just like the meatgrinder takes care of Overwatch, except overwatch is 5x better of an ability..
But u just proved my point how , IF soviets were to get a doc like this we would have people crying over it LMAO. Soviets are just an example since they mirror Ostheer also..u can have ur radio intercept and skillplanes, I'll gladly take IS-2 ace and 0 CP guards with PPSH and Oorah. Deal?
20 Jun 2019, 13:52 PM
#34
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 36
I got an idea..
How about the community patchers stop using the live game as their testing guinea pigs especially for one side only tipping the balance so unfair?
Or or how about they actually look at what they put in the game and how it works with balance..
(ostheer commander is blatantly op lets be real here, if soviets had 0cp PPSH cons, penals with smokes and HF point and a IS-2 ace with t-34/85 in the same doctrine everyone would be crying)
Most tests and thinking is ofc in 1vs1, 2vs2.
And i was very busy in RL, so we missed this "problem" for teamgames.
20 Jun 2019, 13:54 PM
#35
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
Most tests and thinking is ofc in 1vs1, 2vs2.
And i was very busy in RL, so we missed this "problem" for teamgames.
So revert the CP costs while u think about it or make all heavies 0 CP tech-tied instead
20 Jun 2019, 13:55 PM
#36
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I got an idea..
How about the community patchers stop using the live game as their testing guinea pigs especially for one side only tipping the balance so unfair?
Or or how about they actually look at what they put in the game and how it works with balance..
(ostheer commander is blatantly op lets be real here, if soviets had 0cp PPSH cons, penals with smokes and HF point and a IS-2 ace with t-34/85 in the same doctrine everyone would be crying)
How about decently phrasing your complaints for something that other people made for you with good intentions in their own free time?
There are complaints to be made, and rightfully so, but there's no reason to violate Wheaton's law.
20 Jun 2019, 13:59 PM
#37
Posts: 12
How about decently phrasing your complaints for something that other people made for you with good intentions in their own free time?
There are complaints to be made, and rightfully so, but there's no reason to violate Wheaton's law.
Was this game free?
20 Jun 2019, 13:59 PM
#38
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
How about decently phrasing your complaints for something that other people made for you with good intentions in their own free time?
There are complaints to be made, and rightfully so, but there's no reason to violate Wheaton's law.
Not going to derail this thread with nonsense doodoo throwing or whatever I'll just say what I just said again as a solution since the complaint themselves are already acknowledged..also i paid for the game and dlc's..didnt receive the game for free.. if I took a fat dump on your brand new BMW u bought u wouldnt be happy either..u wouldnt appreciate it because I did it for free
Tie all heavies to tech in a hotfix or revert CP changes till they got a better solution
People have yet to answer me also why it was only put for axis only? Im sorry but rushing 12 minute tigers in 3v3 lost its novelty value after the 10+ streak i got and i'd like to play allies too not just axis
20 Jun 2019, 14:00 PM
#39
Posts: 833
Most tests and thinking is ofc in 1vs1, 2vs2.
And i was very busy in RL, so we missed this "problem" for teamgames.
Is there any interest in the balance team for a tank focussed patch? Like bringing heavy callins tied to tech, maybe some adjustments for forgotten units like comet with a redesign like sherman76 got?
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
20 Jun 2019, 14:02 PM
#40
Posts: 12
I agree, they should revert until they come up with a fix.
Rushing tiger is just... terrible.
Rushing tiger is just... terrible.
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