Move Conscripts 7th man from t4 to t3?

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMStug life

again if we go cons vs volks, volks upgrade cost more and is worse at long range doesn't give 1 more man, tech cost: 80 10 + 125 10 vs 100 15 + another 100 15 but later

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 17:06 PMStug life

well yes soviet medic don't cost fu while okw does

btw yes soviet and ost were power creeped thanks to dlc, and required heavy buff to make it up

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 19:22 PMmurky depths

Sure, no fuel for it -- but it does cost MP, 250 of it. Either way, both pay separately for it so there's no room to argue "it's free" for OKW so I didn't include it in the comparison.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 20:00 PMmurky depths

I just didn't want to go down that rabbit hole since it's a complete tangent -- I mean you do get the Commisar squad who has UKF style healing; urban defense's conversion + structure (though that has a fuel cost); and the new airborne has the medic crate drop from the forward post.

All of that is beside the point though since neither one is forced into teching that but as OKW the nades/fausts are auto-teched and so the only apt comparison for soviets' molotov + AT nade.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMStug life

again if we go cons vs volks, volks upgrade cost more and is worse at long range doesn't give 1 more man, tech cost: 80 10 + 125 10 vs 100 15 + another 100 15 but later (like a loan), the upgrade does come earlier than cons but the 7th men cost nothing to tech

Jump back to quoted post20 Jun 2019, 22:58 PMBenKenobi

Have you really just tried to compare Volks with Cons?

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 09:40 AMBenKenobi

Because Volks are probably the most cost-efficent unit in the entire game whereas Cons rank among the least efficient ones as Penals can do pretty much everything better without the ridiculous MP drain that Cons incur due to their awkward pre-vet performance?

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 10:48 AMVipper

VG are not allot better than Conscripts.

If one invest 60 munition for ST44 VG become allot better than Conscripts.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 11:14 AMCrecer13

They are better then conscripts, with the same cover, 5 Folk without STG will beat 6 conscripts at any distance.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 11:23 AMVipper

They should since the are more expensive, even so conscripts perform better once vetted.

Point here is that VG become allot more effective once up gunned. The main problem with VGs is the ST44 upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 11:27 AMCrecer13

more expensive only on 10 man power, and therefore they should be at any distance right at the start?

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 11:40 AMVipper

Actually it would be probably be better if they had slightly different weapon profiles and conscripts having a slight disadvantage at long range and slight advantage from 15-20. Making relative positioning important makes the game better imo.

On the other hand currently if you perform the same test at vet 3 I would guess that conscripts would win.

Bottom line here is that its ST44 that makes the difference. Now if they VG received a nerf to better balanced vs conscripts (as they should imo) Penals would also have to be nerfed (as they should imo) or they would completely dominate VG at all ranges.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 11:40 AMVipper

Bottom line here is that its ST44 that makes the difference. Now if they VG received a nerf to better balanced vs conscripts (as they should imo) Penals would also have to be nerfed (as they should imo) or they would completely dominate VG at all ranges.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 12:03 PMblvckdream

It just doesn't make sense. It's not practical to nerf all balanced infantry units instead of buffing the few under powered ones.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 12:22 PMMaret

There are many ways to balance units, stats is only one way. Another way - economical part. Sometimes decreased price makes units more playable. Looks like many peoples see cons as utility unit and in game we have one unit that much closer this view - osttruppens. Cheap as dirt, could build defensive structures, have snares, very good in terms of loses and resources and also have weapon upgrade. Main problem with cons - very huge MP bleed for very tiny results + investments in their utility upgrades.

We could decrease economical pressure from cons on player and this could makes them better, without any touches to their battle stats. IF you have cheap unit you could deal with huge loses.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jun 2019, 12:42 PMVipper

Human wave tactics have been tested and proven problematic vs ostheer. Osttuppen do not have ourah or molotovs and can only be used in cover.

If one turns conscripts to osttruppen the ourah and molotov has to go.