M36 Jackson

Su85s and Fireflies want to have a serious talk with you, since none of them can beat as effectively (not even cost efficiently) mediums like jacksons do, ON THE MOVE AND TAKING HITS LIKE A CHAMP.

If your own allie bias is biased towards USF, then the problem its not the game unbalance

Why are you diving TDs with medium tanks again?

I assume that is what you are doing, since the M36 itself can't dive, especially when Axis have more snares and effective AT infantry than any of the allies.

In a normal engagement you really shouldn't have a problem pushing the M36 out of the combat area, provided you are supporting your tanks with infantry, and it can't self spot, so I dont imagine it outranging you in any other scenario.

Su85s and Fireflies want to have a serious talk with you, since none of them can beat as effectively (not even cost efficiently) mediums like jacksons do, ON THE MOVE AND TAKING HITS LIKE A CHAMP.

If your own allie bias is biased towards USF, then the problem its not the game unbalance

So what if the Jackson is the best TD in the game? SO WHAT? Something has to be the best TD in the game, should it be the STUG III instead? That way Axis get the best tanks, infantry, crewed weapons, artillery and now TDs in the game yay!

So what if the Jackson is the best TD in the game? SO WHAT? Something has to be the best TD in the game, should it be the STUG III instead? That way Axis get the best tanks, infantry, crewed weapons, artillery and now TDs in the game yay!

You are so incredibly biased its actually funny.
It doesn't need to be leaps and bounds above all of its counterparts. Every unit has some sort of drawback that is an exploitable weakness. The only other turreted TD costs more and lack mobility as well as a turret so slow that it might as well be a case mate.
The Jackson used to be squishy, but now it's as durable as any of them while maintaining all of its previous advantages.
It's called a power creep and the only way you can hold the Jackson up against all the other yds and not see something doesn't add up is because the fanboyism is blocking your vision.
If the Jackson was called the panzer flicker copy and pasted into the axis faction id put money on you seeing the issue.

The issue isn't the Jackson being the best TD, it is it doing so by such a large margin.

The issue isn't the Jackson being the best TD, it is it doing so by such a large margin.

What if the the margin was there to compensate the lack of mine, rocket arty, heavy tank, elite infantry etc...
All other factions have access to at least one of those without having to use a doctrine. And even if you take doctrines in account, don't forget that other factions also have doctrine granting them the same amount of bonus.

I'm not saying the situation is ideal but you can't really be serious with this argument. Other faction's margin is in what they can field around their tank destroyer USF can't.

Ostheer margin is in the pzwerfer behind the panther firing at Jackson's support troops so the panther can freely roam around.
etc...

What if the the margin was there to compensate the lack of mine, rocket arty, heavy tank, elite infantry etc...
All other factions have access to at least one of those without having to use a doctrine. And even if you take doctrines in account, don't forget that other factions also have doctrine granting them the same amount of bonus.

I'm not saying the situation is ideal but you can't really be serious with this argument. Other faction's margin is in what they can field around their tank destroyer USF can't.

Ostheer margin is in the pzwerfer behind the panther firing at Jackson's support troops so the panther can freely roam around.
etc...

since you mention it. USF has now very good indirect fire consistency. Scotts, pak howies and mortars, not even mentioning the good MHT and also "the best heavy TD to compensate" the game is basically unbalanced. Sin the only viable counter for jacksons is infantry AT and those are *humm *humm not cheap at all, and they are easily -no micro needed- indirect fire. Its a lategame domination because counters (inf) are countered before they can damage frontline units.

Lets do a checklist before jumping to conclusions
USF:
-Lategame infantry control *using riflemen + indirect fire units (mortar, pak howie)
-Lategame tank control *using M36s
-Lategame indirect control *scotts, Priests (doc)

Seems pretty solid. What about axis
-Lategame infantry *Obers (?, vetted volks or pfussies
-Lategame tank control *JT (doc), Eleph(doc)
-Lategame indirect *MHT (doc), LeFh (doc), arty call in (doc)

It seems that doctrinal solutions are a must, but USF has stock full potential lategame arsenal, because it "is compensating lack of mines"

What if the the margin was there to compensate the lack of mine, rocket arty, heavy tank, elite infantry etc...
All other factions have access to at least one of those without having to use a doctrine. And even if you take doctrines in account, don't forget that other factions also have doctrine granting them the same amount of bonus.

I'm not saying the situation is ideal but you can't really be serious with this argument. Other faction's margin is in what they can field around their tank destroyer USF can't.

Ostheer margin is in the pzwerfer behind the panther firing at Jackson's support troops so the panther can freely roam around.
etc...

What are crews and increased field presence while teching?

since you mention it...

Since you mention it, pzwerfer hard counter mortar and pak howie and Infantry. On the other side a scott isn't going to delete or force retreat a bunch of unit in one volley. It works differently.
I excluded doctrines because each faction have doctrines with valuable assets, you can't tell me to just us Priest if in front of it there is a Tiger Ace.
If you look into Stock Options, Oshteer is by design more equiped than USF who rely on crutch units to stay relevant. Again I'm not saying this is the perfect situation but that's what we have today.

And btw you're probably one patch late, Pzgrenadiers are better than Riflemen now. The OP riflemen meme is over.

OKW at the moment have also access to everything, from indirect fire to stock Heavy tank. Replace the pzwerfer with the Stuka behind the panther and here you go. And if you have trouble finding the USF unit in the fog of war, just build a IRHT.
And Ober > Riflemen.

So yes there is a margin in which the Jackson evolve above other faction and that's probably the only one USF has at the moment.

What are crews and increased field presence while teching?

Dunno, irrelevant with the topic

The OP Riflemen meme is a joke to begin with. At vet 3 and 120 mun sink they had absolutely better wipe the floor with any stock infantry in the mid range. And before that they'll get mopped by LMG42 Grens, buffed Ass Grens and the newly popular PzGren spam. PzFusiliers also outperform rifles once theyre equipped with G43s, particularly at short range.

If you're playing ostheer you simply have no excuse for not being able to beat or push out the M36. If you're playing OKW it's tougher, sure, but again its not like USF is going to push you with it either.

What are crews and increased field presence while teching?

How does that help countering tanks again?

How does that help countering tanks again?

Im not quite sure what you mean. Wasnt the subject imo

Im not quite sure what you mean. Wasnt the subject imo

How it wasn't the subject?
He clearly pointed out that all other factions have secondary(some even tetrary) TDs, more potent ATGs and/or more efficient handheld AT, which justifies jackson performance considering its inferior AT support.

You responded with vehicle crews and field presence.
So again, how do vehicle crews and extra 60 seconds of engineer unit on field help with AT for USF?

How it wasn't the subject?
He clearly pointed out that all other factions have secondary(some even tetrary) TDs, more potent ATGs and/or more efficient handheld AT, which justifies jackson performance considering its inferior AT support.

You responded with vehicle crews and field presence.
So again, how do vehicle crews and extra 60 seconds of engineer unit on field help with AT for USF?

Aw, thats why he wrote “elite infantry“ and “rocket arty“, my go to solution for destroying tanks.

Go play the game or something

Aw, thats why he wrote “elite infantry“ and “rocket arty“, my go to solution for destroying tanks.

Go play the game or something

You mean that crew repair is at the same level than having acces to stock elite infantry or rocket arty? I'm not denying that is a potent tool, but I'll put it at the same level than blitz or self healing on volks. Or simply at the level of engineer AT mines that break engine.

No matter the reason the current performance of M36 especially at long range is problematic. It creates a stale meta of infatry/TD spam. It should simply change.

You mean that crew repair is at the same level than having acces to stock elite infantry or rocket arty? I'm not denying that is a potent tool, but I'll put it at the same level than blitz or self healing on volks. Or simply at the level of engineer AT mines that break engine.

In my oppinion, yes.

So Axis Mediums struggle against Jackson but it is perfectly ok for USF Shermans to struggle against panthers?

So Axis Mediums struggle against Jackson but it is perfectly ok for USF Shermans to struggle against panthers?

Check the price difference between PzIV and M36 and Panther and Sherman.

Now check the range difference.

Finally if in your pinion Panther is causing problem lets mirror it's stat, timing , tech cost to M36 and see how it goes.

Check the price difference between PzIV and M36 and Panther and Sherman.

Now check the range difference.

Finally if in your pinion Panther is causing problem lets mirror it's stat, timing , tech cost to M36 and see how it goes.

I can already hear the endless REEEEEE from axis players who now actually have to watch for flanks and can't overextend and still escape with panther.

Don't know as others, but I am perfectly fine with halving panthers armor, cutting a third of its current health, giving it 10 more range and lowering its cost.

I can already hear the endless REEEEEE from axis players who now actually have to watch for flanks and can't overextend and still escape with panther.

Don't know as others, but I am perfectly fine with halving panthers armor, cutting a third of its current health, giving it 10 more range and lowering its cost.

Don't forget about taking out blitz, tactical cocaine cloud and reducing its AI to 0, and we have a deal.

Check the price difference between PzIV and M36 and Panther and Sherman.

Now check the range difference.

Finally if in your pinion Panther is causing problem lets mirror it's stat, timing , tech cost to M36 and see how it goes.

This game cannot be asymmetrical so no point of comparing all of this when the general theme/purpose of building a Panther or Jackson is to hard counter other tanks which both excel in (especially against mediums).

Jackson is one size fits all unit and its by choice of design of the US faction. You cannot nerf Jackson without nerfing the entire faction's AT capability for late game. Dont even say Riflemen with Zooks and AT guns are viable late game with Panzerwer, Stuka and Arty abilities are rampant.