Tie Call-Ins to tech this patch

The oft-quoted but not officially confirmed line is heavy call-ins will get tied to tech in the next big patch after this one. The reasoning is there's a lot of testing that needs to be done to rebalance the heavies to still be relevant after that change, and that can't be done in that patch cycle.

The problem is a lot of the patch changes will also buff the call-in strats.

The SU-76 is getting buffed, Assault Grenadiers are getting buffed to relevance and Rangers are getting both a cost buff and triple elite bazookas to act as an AT stopgap.

IS-2 and KV-2 stallers get a solid anti-tank vehicle to bridge the gap, Tiger stallers get scaling CQC infantry and Pershing stallers get cheaper Rangers with the option to turn them into what may be the best anti-tank infantry in the game.



In light of this, can we tie the heavies to tech now rather than in the next patch? Sure, maybe they'll not be optimal for a while, but better that than a patch cycle of buffed call-in strats.

Plus, the team behind the next patch will have several months of live data on how heavies perform tied to tech before they start tweaking their stats, so the performance changes whenever they happen will be better informed.

Imo we should go the exact opposite direction. This patch should focus only on commanders and the next patch should include the core changes.

I'm torn on tying call-ins to tech, while it does reduce call-in spam and prevent games from devolving into a trickle of heavy tanks, it also makes it harder to deal with highly efficient vehicles like Panthers when you are the Allies, especially if it's OKW and they open with the Command Panther.

On Tiger and IS2 it might actually be sensible to remove their CP requirement once they are tied to tech. These units have the issue of being almost useless in teamgames cuz atm they arrive at a stage where the opponent usually has loads of tank destroyers already.... and that is when IS2 and Tiger become really, really bad. Show Spoiler

Command Panther can only have its CPs removed if sight range and maybe also mark target get nerfed.

With Pershing it is similar, the unit could get its CP requirement removed if the accuracy vs infantry gets slightly nerfed.

Elefant, JT, ST, Crocodile, KV2 and ISU152 should just stay as they are if they are tied to tech (CPs and tech being required for them)

I think it better only for IS2 tiger and command panther,they are powerful in 1V1 or 2v2 because they can AI and AT
Pershing is weak enough，I dont think it should request tech，if Pershning need tech，PLZ cost reduce to 200 fuel，or give more HP ……
Other heavy vehicle is AI or AT only，they most time used in 3v3 or 4v4，and they do their job very well，and they still need AI or AT vehicle support them， high CP is good limit for them timing

I'll take it all or not at all.

I think it better only for IS2 tiger and command panther ……
Pershing is weak enough，cost reduce to 200 fuel，or give more HP ……
Other heavy vehicle is AI or AT only，they still need medium tank or TD give cover and support

I voted for tie this patch and adjust performance next patch because these new commanders and vanilla factions tweaks will hopefully shake up the meta and give us a fresh take on what needs what anyways. If we do both at the same time, even as the focus of the patch I guarantee the forum will be a shit show and we won't get any meaningful feedback.

Honestly all call-ins just need to be tied to the last stage of tech for each of their respective factions. Command Panther should require Tier 3. IS2 should require Tier 4, Tiger should at least require Battlephase 3 but maybe even Tier 4 depending on the timing of the unit. Pershing should require the Major, Churchill Croc should at least require Tier 3 but maybe even Hammer or Anvil to be tech'd similar to the Tiger. I would say the same should go for all other heavy tanks for each faction. Ideally, the CP requirement would be removed but if it isn't removed the units probably wouldn't need to be nerfed. The CP requirement hurts the heavies in team games but if they removed the CP requirement I get the feeling the heavies would be bat-shit OP in 1's since it would be a trade-off of going for 2 mediums or 1 heavy tank in which I would rather have the heavy tank in most cases. So for now leave the CP requirement on them and tie them to the last stage of tech for all factions.

The CP requirement hurts the heavies in team games but if they removed the CP requirement I get the feeling the heavies would be bat-shit OP in 1's since it would be a trade-off of going for 2 mediums or 1 heavy tank in which I would rather have the heavy tank in most cases.

It'd be interesting to see the raw numbers comparison. I suspect the two mediums have the edge in damage output.

2 mediums will always deal better damage then 1 heavy.
1 heavy is just easier to keep alife but it still loses to 2 mediums(unless its IS-2, this one's meant to last).

2 mediums will always deal better damage then 1 heavy.
1 heavy is just easier to keep alife but it still loses to 2 mediums(unless its IS-2, this one's meant to last).

I don't know, a lot of mediums have trouble penning heavies (unless they're TDs ofc). I tend to think a well supported heavy will do much better against multiple mediums with equal amounts of support, especially in head on fight, but if the mediums try to flank they'll probably get snared.

2 mediums will always deal better damage then 1 heavy.
1 heavy is just easier to keep alife but it still loses to 2 mediums(unless its IS-2, this one's meant to last).

But in turn it's got higher penetration and armour, making it better equipped to deal with heavier tanks.

I think there are enough reasons to go either for it to work.

When is this patch supposed to go live?

Imo we should go the exact opposite direction. This patch should focus only on commanders and the next patch should include the core changes.

+1 and will be!

On Tiger and IS2 it might actually be sensible to remove their CP requirement once they are tied to tech. These units have the issue of being almost useless in teamgames cuz atm they arrive at a stage where the opponent usually has loads of tank destroyers already.... and that is when IS2 and Tiger become really, really bad.


Command Panther can only have its CPs removed if sight range and maybe also mark target get nerfed.

With Pershing it is similar, the unit could get its CP requirement removed if the accuracy vs infantry gets slightly nerfed.

Elefant, JT, ST, Crocodile, KV2 and ISU152 should just stay as they are if they are tied to tech (CPs and tech being required for them)

+1

When is this patch supposed to go live?

Planned is around 1 month

The new update has tied the Tiger Ace to tech!

Might there yet be hope?

Honestly all call-ins just need to be tied to the last stage of tech for each of their respective factions. Command Panther should require Tier 3. IS2 should require Tier 4, Tiger should at least require Battlephase 3 but maybe even Tier 4 depending on the timing of the unit. Pershing should require the Major, Churchill Croc should at least require Tier 3 but maybe even Hammer or Anvil to be tech'd similar to the Tiger. I would say the same should go for all other heavy tanks for each faction. Ideally, the CP requirement would be removed but if it isn't removed the units probably wouldn't need to be nerfed. The CP requirement hurts the heavies in team games but if they removed the CP requirement I get the feeling the heavies would be bat-shit OP in 1's since it would be a trade-off of going for 2 mediums or 1 heavy tank in which I would rather have the heavy tank in most cases. So for now leave the CP requirement on them and tie them to the last stage of tech for all factions.

Agree,I think tiger need phase3 is enough？Elephant and TigerAce I think they need highest tech.OKW request SWHQ is enough

For Ostheer, I'd say Support Armor Korps or Heavy Panzer Korps. Ostheer's medium armor tech fork doesn't really have a parallel in other factions.

Are we gonna make them have build timers? Or just tech requirements before they get called in (like KT). I'd prefer the first option, I don't like units beyond doctrinal infantry being clicked into existence