OKW - Grand Offensive - Feedback

Some thoughts about 6.0 "Grand offensive":

Commander looks really good now and i support the decision to bring back the IR Stgs.
But i can also understand guys like Sully who want a little bit more utility with this upgrade.
IR STg + Tank commander are good upgrades but only very few units can profit from them.
In most games you will not have more than 1 tank with tank commander and 1 Ober unit with IR STG.

Considering that the upgrades takes 2 complete commander slots it would be justified to give the IR STg upgrade 1 more ability like camo or smoke grenades. Call it "offensive package" again, Spec ops doesnt need no further buffs (until Commando PAnther is tied to tech).

The one obers used, updated the post to make it clear

Are you comparing two IR STGs to two Thompsons or two IR STGs to four Thompsons?

My bad, ...

Not problem, we all make mistakes, I was simply clarifying.

Tested the commander for a few games and here are my opinions:

Panzerfusiliers are given anti tank upgrade, which was needed in this faction. However, why this unit is not a call in unit unlike all other commander specific infantry squads? (I cant understand why??) Keeping a call-in squad suits the offensive theme much better. Plus, same AT upgrade costs 100 munition on panzergrenadiers and the cost may be reconsidered.

I suggest the addition of panzer tactician to this doctorine, which encourages tanks to break into enemy lines. IMO, it can replace panzer commander upgrade which i don't think is useful here. This ability makes the commander much more attractive to the players who based their pushes on heavy OKW tanks.

The addition of Tiger tank is a good idea, as it took a lot of fuel to unlock and bring KT in and fits the offensive theme well. However, the veterancy rank 4 and 5 should be reconsidered. The command mode significantly decreases the performance of the tank, costs munition and lasts too short. I suggest either a much useful passive command aura like command panther vet 1, extra abilities such as flare, self repair or air support, or tank specific upgrades such as penetration and sight boost.

I suggest the addition of panzer tactician to this doctorine, which encourages tanks to break into enemy lines. IMO, it can replace panzer commander upgrade which i don't think is useful here. This ability makes the commander much more attractive to the players who based their pushes on heavy OKW tanks.

Panzer Tactician is a defensive ability. If you want to use smoke to attack with your tanks, the doctrine has the Stuka Smoke drop.

Arguing STG obers don't have enough utility when they have:
Bundle grenade
Boby trap point
Vet 1 damaging smoke grenade
Vet 3 passive healing
Vet 4 suppressive fire (which still works with the STG)
Vet 5 passive sprint
There STG mostly ignores cover (0.9 instead of 0.5) and is still effective at max range
AND get one of the lowest RAs in the game

Almost all of those things come with the LMG as well. They're not incentives to go the IR STG route.

Exclusive Camo and or smoke nades would be however.

Are you comparing two IR STGs to two Thompsons or two IR STGs to four Thompsons?

The site im using shows single weapon stats, so one IR STG has more dps over one Thompson
If we compare two IR STGs to four Thompsons, we get 44.058 DPS for two IR STGS and 73.648 at close range and 6.366 DPs vs 2.596 at long range

Which is what I expected, im sorry if I haven't been clear but im not expecting two IR STGs to have more dps then four Thompsons, because its four vs two, however the IR STGs DO have a higher dps if we compare two IR STGs to two Thompsons. I've been trying to make the point that obers with STGs already have a lot of utility and you don't need to add camo onto them, and if you did it would make them amazingly broken.

Almost all of those things come with the LMG as well. They're not incentives to go the IR STG route.

Exclusive Camo and or smoke nades would be however.

Why do you need an "incentive" to go for the IR STGs? and if you do want that theres:
They are cheaper (60muni vs 80muni)
Ignore cover
Reveal camo units at a further range
Unlike the mg34, there dps INCREASES the closer you get to the unit, making them harder to rush and easier to duel with cqc units

They already have a lot of perks over the lmg, if you have to give them something then replace the chemical smoke with regular smoke (you shouldn't have both, mainly cause it'll just clutter the UI), they both serve the same role but its something I guess

Panzer Tactician is a defensive ability. If you want to use smoke to attack with your tanks, the doctrine has the Stuka Smoke drop.

The arrival of the stuka might be a little bit too late...
No idea about why panzerfusiliers can not be a call-in unit and why they are so special?

Slightly left field idea: this doctrine's themed around a Grand Offensive, right?

If Panzer Commander really is unsatisfactory, maybe steal Sector Assault from Overwatch? It fits the theme and would replace the munitions sink.

A secondary perk is Overwatch has five abilities again instead of six.

If Panzer Commander really is unsatisfactory, maybe steal Sector Assault from Overwatch? It fits the theme and would replace the munitions sink.

Ahh, yes.. the most skillful skillplane ability of all, I rather not.

Ahh, yes.. the most skillful skillplane ability of all, I rather not.

I'm suggesting removing it from Overwatch at the same time.

No idea about why panzerfusiliers can not be a call-in unit and why they are so special?

It doesn't really make a difference with CP0 units.

I'm suggesting removing it from Overwatch at the same time.

I'd rather see the skillflares removed from Overwatch. Moving the skillstrafe from Overwatch would only shift the problem to Grand Offensive.

I'd rather see the skillflares removed from Overwatch. Moving the skillstrafe from Overwatch would only shift the problem to Grand Offensive.

So would I, but there's no hope of getting that in scope.

OKW
Tiger
-Command Tiger penalty from -40% reload and -30 accuracy to -20% reload and -20% accuracy.
-Vet 4 and 5 requirements significantly reduced

Do you consider making those command abilities mixed between combat vet bonuses (for example: infantry aura as vet2 and tank aura in vet4)? That would allow player to use it earlier when Tiger isn't os effective on the battlefield. Currently even with highly reduce vet requirement it is still really late ability. Again, I don't see the point of masivly reducing performance of the best unit i have (vet5 Tiger will be basicly stand alone, 1 unit army) to buff slighly nearbly troops.

Another idea would be a Commissar style abilities that buff and in same time nerf the pointed squad/vehicule and has no inpact on Tiger performance.

Proposed changes are better than in 4.0 version but still not worth using, unless you blob your entire vet4-5 army in 1 massive push. It's really important to not make this ability a meme like it was done with OKW LeFH vet5.

Do you consider making those command abilities mixed between combat vet bonuses (for example: infantry aura as vet2 and tank aura in vet4)? That would allow player to use it earlier when Tiger isn't os effective on the battlefield. Currently even with highly reduce vet requirement it is still really late ability. Again, I don't see the point of masivly reducing performance of the best unit i have (vet5 Tiger will be basicly stand alone, 1 unit army) to buff slighly nearbly troops.

Another idea would be a Commissar style abilities that buff and in same time nerf the pointed squad/vehicule and has no inpact on Tiger performance.

Proposed changes are better than in 4.0 version but still not worth using, unless you blob your entire vet4-5 army in 1 massive push. It's really important to not make this ability a meme like it was done with OKW LeFH vet5.

But by what right should the OKW Tiger be straight up better than the Ostheer one?

The Command Ability is just there because the alternative would be to make OKW Tiger's vet 5 be the equivalent of Ostheer's vet 3, as a nod to the people who voted for a Command Tiger (which was never going to happen). It's not supposed to be an incredibly good ability, because the Tiger on its own is already a very good unit for OKW.

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+20% reload time isn't a whole lot when vet 3 already gave -30% reload time and -20% accuracy is negated by vet 2's +20% accuracy and can even be compensated more by the Panzer Commander's +10% accuracy bonus if you're planning on using the ability a lot.

But by what right should the OKW Tiger be straight up better than the Ostheer one?

The Command Ability is just there because the alternative would be to make OKW's vet 5 be the equivalent of Ostheer's vet 3, and as a nod to the people who voted for a Command Tiger (which was never going to happen). It's not supposed to be an incredibly good ability, because the Tiger on its own is already a very good unit for OKW.

The majority of OKW units are better than their Ostheer one counter parts.
The question is why a vet 4 ability should be worse than vet 1 KV-8/KV-2 ability?

The majority of OKW units are better than their Ostheer one counter parts.
The question is why a vet 4 ability should be worse than vet 1 KV-8/KV-2 ability?

Infantry within 30m will move faster and have their weapon cooldowns reduced by 20%

Is stronger then

Reduces weapon cooldoown by 25% and received accuracy by 20% for 30 seconds. 35 munitions. 25m radius, reduces the reload of vehicles by 20% and the received accuracy of vehicles by 20%. Does not affect the Tiger. During this ability, the tank will have reduced combat performance. -20% reload and -20% accuracy for tiger for duration.

How?

I don't know what kind of insane math stretching you're trying to here, but the only world where 20% cooldown and slight movement speed boost for infantry only is stronger then 25% cooldown, 20% received accuracy, 20% reload for vehicles and 20% received accuracy for vehicles at the cost of ONE SECOND INCREASED RELOAD and small accuracy debuff is your very own.

The majority of OKW units are better than their Ostheer one counter parts.

All of the cross-over units have the same vet 1-3 abilities and bonusses as far as I know.

Furthermore most of the units that both factions share, also get mediocre bonusses/abilities at vet 4 and 5 (Puma, Ostwind, Pak 43, LeFH 18). The Panther is the only unit that gets something really worthwhile, but it's only its vet 5.

The Tiger should not be an exception to this. It even gets a discount for its vet 4 and 5 requirements while all the other units have requirements that are exponentionally higher than their vet 3's.

The question is why a vet 4 ability should be worse than vet 1 KV-8/KV-2 ability?

Because the Tiger is a superheavy that doesn't need anything else and the KV-8 and KV-2 are not.
Their Inspire ability is also not as strong.

But by what right should the OKW Tiger be straight up better than the Ostheer one?

I dont want to complain about the unit performance but the OKW Tiger needs tech, the OST Tiger does not. If heavies are rightfully tied to tech then the price has to be adjusted too.