New Commander patchnotes discussion thread

Nerf fookin OP 3dP guard airborn

Nerf fookin OP 3dP guard airborn

Why?
Their AI DPS is only slightly higher then regular guards and is not focused on 1 model.
And it needs to be higher, because why would you pick them over regular guards if it wasn't?

I like how all this bois cry when axis get a lil love to their hand-AT situiation...they are now in a postions you have no well Handheld AT. Schrecks overall are bad..because misses unless you come in near combar under 20 range...and aim a target which doesnt move. than yes...they are good...but sadly schrecks are only available on 4model squads with high price tag.

and than you look to alies..which all get access to handheld AT on nearly ALL infantry with zooks or piats. even on the cheapest squads...and yes..you can have this on 5 or even 6 model squads.

and this AT weapons hit at higher range...

so yes: better handheld AT for axis...so allies cant cheese around anymore with armor

I like how all this bois cry when axis get a lil love to their hand-AT situiation...they are now in a postions you have no well Handheld AT. Schrecks overall are bad..because misses unless you come in near combar under 20 range...and aim a target which doesnt move. than yes...they are good...but sadly schrecks are only available on 4model squads with high price tag.

and than you look to alies..which all get access to handheld AT on nearly ALL infantry with zooks or piats. even on the cheapest squads...and yes..you can have this on 5 or even 6 model squads.

and this AT weapons hit at higher range...

so yes: better handheld AT for axis...so allies cant cheese around anymore with armor

Its called balance.

You either have strong weapon on regular squads or weaker weapons on more durable ones.

Its not really hard concept, so I don't know why you struggle so much.

but sadly schrecks are only available on 4model squads with high price tag.

We're now going to pretend the past didn't happened and we don't know why it is like that?

Lets compare bazookas to panzershreks for a second.

Damage: panzershreks deal 120 damage while zooks deal 80 damage.

Penetration: panzershreks have 180-160 pen while zooks have 130-110 pen.

Accuracy: panzershreks have .028-.069 and zooks have .034-.063

Reload: panzershreks have 7.75 and 5.75

All told, zooks have marginally higher dps at long range against lightly armored targets (better accuracy and better reload offsets the lower damage). However, shreks have higher up front damage, which is extremely helpful when you can only get one volley off. If you shoot 4 zooks at a halftrack, every single one of them has to land in order to one shot the thing, while you only need 3 shrek hits to get the kill. And at shorter ranges, the accuracy evens out and shreks are simply better in all respects. Overall, zooks are tied at best against light targets.

Against medium+ tanks, shreks are massively better. The 50% higher pen is incredibly valuable against anything sherman-level or heavier. Even against a sherman, zooks would only penetrate 81%-69% of the time (depending on range), while a panzershrek will penetrate 100% of the time no matter what the range. This is sort of relevant, and it means that panzershreks will deal significantly higher damage in pretty much all scenarios.

So, uhhh, yeah, if you want axis to have zooks and brits/usf to have 60mu shreks, every allied player will happily take that trade.

During one version, we actually thought of having the assault infantry section upgrade only give stens, and the halftrack would be a lend lease version of the weapons halftrack youre referring to. This one would drop zooks (insead of piats) and thompsons (instead of vickers lmgs; this would have been how assault sections or even sappers got their thompsons).

That accually would be good but for already existing M3 in Weapon Support Regiment. I would better see this HT as a soviet version so M5 - upgradable with AA mode. Again, more agressive tool for brits which would fit the theme.

Currently the svt pickup does nothing for penals, but later on it will probably be either locked out for them, or give them ppshs.

So maybe change the name of ability and it;s visual aspect. Make it a "specialistic weapon drop" which gives diffrent upgrades to diffrent type of infantry [SVT to cons, but flamer for airborn and ppsh for penals]. It would look as a simple box, identical to a resources or med box from diffrent commanders.

I'm worried about those 3dps and "To the last men" ability. Weapons are transfered to the next models and assuming that 3 models left with those 3 DPs that can be horribly deadly combo, don't you think?

Btw, it's really nice to see that my suggestion to add Medical Airdrop in RallyPoint was included.

I'm interested in SVT drop and IL-2 Rocket strafe
So far this commander does not affect any soviet commanders other those with DShK, and those are very small changes
Would be nice if other commanders like Advanced warfare got that thing instead of anemic version of IL-2 loiter
Same with SVT drop, it would be better off to try it as an upgrade and also give it to non-meta commanders like conscript support tactics and advanced warfare.

+1

As far as the Wehrmacht goes their abilities seem a bit underwhelming when compared to others, changes to Ass Grens are nice but Breakthrough Equipment and the Panzer IV J seem like worse versions than the German infantry ability and the regular Panzer IV to be honest except that it already comes with the side skirts.

Breakthrough Equipment - why would pgrens need ONLY Satchel Charge if they already has bundlenade? Add them additionally a smoke nade

MP40 - it's not written anywhere but does it also inpact Stormtroopers? I would also suggest remore MP40 upgrade in OKW commander and replace it with flamethrower to sturmpios or anything else really. I don't see any point of having mp40 upgrade to volks when i have Panzerfuzziliers with both AI and AT upgrades. Flamethrower on the other hand sounds more "usefull".

I think Smoke Raid Operation is a little redundant in the new UKF commander. UKF has a lot of smoke to begin with, and the commander also gives you 81mm Smoke and Assault Section White Phosphorous grenades.

I have too agree totally in this one. Too many smoke abilities inside this one. UKF doesn't have many reconnaissance tools so simple recon plane would be good.

Lets compare bazookas to panzershreks for a second.

Damage: panzershreks deal 120 damage while zooks deal 80 damage.

Penetration: panzershreks have 180-160 pen while zooks have 130-110 pen.

Accuracy: panzershreks have .028-.069 and zooks have .034-.063

Reload: panzershreks have 7.75 and 5.75

All told, zooks have marginally higher dps at long range against lightly armored targets (better accuracy and better reload offsets the lower damage). However, shreks have higher up front damage, which is extremely helpful when you can only get one volley off. If you shoot 4 zooks at a halftrack, every single one of them has to land in order to one shot the thing, while you only need 3 shrek hits to get the kill. And at shorter ranges, the accuracy evens out and shreks are simply better in all respects. Overall, zooks are tied at best against light targets.

Against medium+ tanks, shreks are massively better. The 50% higher pen is incredibly valuable against anything sherman-level or heavier. Even against a sherman, zooks would only penetrate 81%-69% of the time (depending on range), while a panzershrek will penetrate 100% of the time no matter what the range. This is sort of relevant, and it means that panzershreks will deal significantly higher damage in pretty much all scenarios.

So, uhhh, yeah, if you want axis to have zooks and brits/usf to have 60mu shreks, every allied player will happily take that trade.

you forgett some stats:

- on which squads are this Handheld AT available?
- pricetag from this squads, models, received accuracy, doc, nondoc,..etc
- availeable counter to this squads


allies have massivly better AI units (centaur/sherman/ cheap t34/ pershing, better rocket arty, more indirect fire etc than axis)

so bringing a 4model squad against high AI defense in near combar is harder than to get a 6 model squad into midrange against less poetent AI defense

I like how all this bois cry when axis get a lil love to their hand-AT situiation...they are now in a postions you have no well Handheld AT. Schrecks overall are bad..because misses unless you come in near combar under 20 range...and aim a target which doesnt move. than yes...they are good...but sadly schrecks are only available on 4model squads with high price tag.

and than you look to alies..which all get access to handheld AT on nearly ALL infantry with zooks or piats. even on the cheapest squads...and yes..you can have this on 5 or even 6 model squads.

and this AT weapons hit at higher range...

so yes: better handheld AT for axis...so allies cant cheese around anymore with armor

I know you're as thick a wehraboo as it gets, but come on man, we've been there and done that already, there is a reason why Volks have STGs on them instead

"Schrecks are bad" - XD, I'm sorry but if the best handheld AT in the game is bad, then there's nothing more to discuss

People are willing to spam PGrens with shrecks so they can delete most allied medium tanks with 1 volley I wonder what will happen if they can do that with 250mp squad that has SPRINT.

PFussies are a pure AI "premium mainline" with bonus vison and I'd rather have them stay that way
Maybe they should just be a 1CP call in, or buildable from T0 after first truck has been deployed, with G43 upgrade locked behind CP2

If they are to have an AT option (which i don't like), they should get PzB39 or 2 at most, and no tellers.

250 mp for fusis seems a bit cheap, I would think 270-280 would be better. 1 Shrek should be fine imo.

I can see Grand Offensive being a high priority pick into SU or Brits to counter early UC or Clown Car with snares.

Also I see some people suggesting e8 or 76mm for the USF commander. Honestly I feel like the commander should either get the upgunned sherman or the calliope. Both in a single commander seems a little ridiculous.

Sometime I wonder if there not a strong biais in favor of OKW inside that balance team group. How can 250mp 5men squad with either pshrek or G43/+1man upgrade on CP0 callin squad can pass the conceptual's discussion stage is beyond me. Oh an yes with Tactical movement on top of it...
I have the feeling that when its goes for this particular faction, any sense of balance's consideration goes away. We will end up with the same problem than JLI, OP but hey "we're closely monitoring it!!!"

USF:
Riflenade on RE seems to be completely redundant with the mortar, the pak and the Scott. Why wouldn't you simply add WP barrage on the Mortar, I mean if we are here to make redundant stuff, let's have it useful.

Blades, honestly just add the Ez8 and stop with those upgrades that nobody play with, if at least they were coming natively on shermans but no, you need to pay munition for it on top of munition for the .50
If you really don't want to give the Ez8 here, merge blade with the .50 upgrade at the very minimum.

Smoke is ok

Rangers are ok

Calliope is still bad.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but is the SVT drop free? I don't see any price tag..

IL-2 missile strafe - I understand that this is an attempt to diversify abilities, but these are 100 ammunition useless ability:
- It causes minimal damage even to stationary targets - buildings, engine damaged tanks
- it does not cause damage to infantry in the area of missile action
- like the IL-2 strafe, it works incorrectly - the missiles attack only 1/2 of the area of the strike ability.

Just replace it with IL-2 PTAB - this will be the best option.

I have some remarks and opinions about the new okw commander I played just now.
Panzer Fusiliers changes got me scratching my head and worried at the same time.
Why give the commander volk MP40's if you can basically get OKW Penals with AT nades right out of the gate?
Also will these CP, vet and weapon changes also affect the Panzer Fusiliers of the breakthrough doctrine?
I say change the stats of the Panzer fusiliers back to what they where so you can replace your MP40 volks late game with a solid all round unit if you lose it. And the higher CP will disincentives blobbing.

But most important of all.

TAKE AWAY THE PANZERSCHRECKS!! I got PTSD flashbacks from the time volkschreck blobbing was a thing. It shuts down all allied medium vehicle play. Please don't out this counter all unit in to the game in it's current state. It will wreck the entire meta.

Now on the tiger1. I don't think it's fits OWK and is a waste of a commander slot. OKW isn't exactly hurting for expensive heavy armor so I feel it's out of place. It should be replaced with a cheaper medium tank, something they lack and that fit's the doctrine well. Maybe a allied beute panzer? T34, Cromwell or m4a3 all would work well but my preference goes to the T34. If this is not possible replace it with the OST panzer 4.

I think the vet 5 sprint from Fusiliers should be removed. A double schreck squad with perma sprint would actually be broken.

I think it's best to replace it with increased sight range. I was thinking about self heal as well but I think fusiliers should remain without self-heal so you have another downside compared to volks

But most important of all.

TAKE AWAY THE PANZERSCHRECKS!! I got PTSD flashbacks from the time volkschreck blobbing was a thing. It shuts down all allied medium vehicle play. Please don't out this counter all unit in to the game in it's current state. It will wreck the entire meta.

Do keep in mind that in regards to / as opposed to old Volksgrenadier Panzerschrecks:

• Volks were cheaper (235MP and 5 popcap) and had way better RA (with vet) than Panzerfusiliers;

• Volks back then had no other upgrades and there was nothing else in stock OKW roster to spend munitions on (except Obers);

• There were no other strategic choices, unlike now where one must choose between AI or AT upgrades;

• Pfussies with 2x Schrecks have practically no AI DPS left, unlike Volks Schrecks that still had pretty decent AI;

• Pfussies are super munitions heavy with 90 MUNI and 120 MUNI upgrades;

• The doctrine is pretty munitions heavy (MP40 upgrades, Stuka Smoke and Tactical Movement, or Jagdtiger, Breakthrough Tactics, Officer and Assault Arty).

Also the current version is just the first iteration. They might need to become more expensive and the vet 5 passive sprint will probably have to be replaced. Maybe other penalties for the Schreck upgrade to discourage blobs.

Regarding paratroopers, I think they are better off with utility vet1 instead of Penal vet due to 3xLMG scaling too well combined with vet 1, give them moving camouflage without ambush instead and replace smoke or sprint with grenade.

I'm sure pfusiliers will be fixed on AT side. But i agree that 250mp is too cheap for a G43 6 men squad. The scaling is too effective on late game, we already have all around vet 5 volks , we don't need four Fusliers vet 5 on late game okw builds. I know they have no tools for garrisons , but on certain open maps like minsk this strat would be OP. They probably need to remain a mid game infantry replacement. JT commander is not in the current meta (maybe , but it is anyway in a good spot i think) , but probably fusiliers are fine now.

If we absolutely have to have T0 pfusis, could I suggest some tweaks to stop them being a pure volks replacement squad?


Keep them 6 man, no need to punish this overly much
Keep them as more expensive than volks - 260 to 280
Lock the g43s behind buying a truck and the snare behind placing a truck
Let them place mines as an AT squad
Give them Anti Tank rifles, the same way that conscript tank hunters get the PTRS.
Allow them a guards-like lockdown ability which improves their cooldown and reload on the AT rifles.


No more shreck blobs, and much less incentive to spam them.

Do keep in mind that in regards to / as opposed to old Volksgrenadier Panzerschrecks:

• Volks back then had no other upgrades and there was nothing else in stock OKW roster to spend munitions on (except Obers);

• There were no other strategic choices, unlike now where one must choose between AI or AT upgrades;

• Pfussies with 2x Schrecks have practically no AI DPS left, unlike Volks Schrecks that still had pretty decent AI;

• Pfussies are super munitions heavy with 90 MUNI and 120 MUNI upgrades;

• The doctrine is pretty munitions heavy (MP40 upgrades, Stuka Smoke and Tactical Movement, or Jagdtiger, Breakthrough Tactics, Officer and Assault Arty).

Also the current version is just the first iteration. They might need to become more expensive and the vet 5 passive sprint will probably have to be replaced. Maybe other penalties for the Schreck upgrade to discourage blobs.

Becouse many many people complain about AT weapon upgrade for Panzerfuzzliers (i'm also worried with tactical movement (and passive sprint) can be too deadly) let me suggest counter suggestion to current commander design.

Remove mp40 upgrade for volks and replace it with second Shrek for Sturmpio and/or additional 2xPanzershreck upgrade for Obers.

If we absolutely have to have T0 pfusis, could I suggest some tweaks to stop them being a pure volks replacement squad?


Keep them 6 man, no need to punish this overly much
Keep them as more expensive than volks - 260 to 280
Lock the g43s behind buying a truck and the snare behind placing a truck
Let them place mines
Give them Anti Tank rifles, the same way that conscript tank hunters get the PTRS.
Allow them a guards-like lockdown ability which improves their cooldown and reload on the AT rifles.


No more shreck blobs, and much less incentive to spam them.

The problem is that at 7 minutes, with a couple of g43 upgrade , usf infantry will be shredded until a double bar upgrade that could keep rifles competitive, but not stronger than fusiliers. On long range maps you have no chance to reach a close combat position. I think people underestimate this unit , it has an amazing survivability combined with vision and snare, i think it is the only elite infantry with snare actually.