New Commander Submission - Discuss

If you want a “panzer 3” make it a panzer 4 Ausf.E with a short barrel firing HEAT. They were pretty similar

The panzer 3 had a little anti tank Canon. Like the soviet t70 or m42. The panzer 4 was supposed to support the panzer 3 against soft targets.

But there is a panzer 3 model in the world builder. A damaged one

Thoughts?

Purpose: To Bring Another Flavor to an Already Unique Commander

This commander requires the user to use partisan units actively in order to make the most of the commander. This commander to disrupt the enemy player through the use of partisans, fear propaganda, and the IL-2 loiter. The units in themselves should be unique thus I implemented changes to the units to differentiate one another. AT Partisans should not be able to build the same items as regular partisans as it diminishes its uniqueness of the unit. The ZI-6 Truck provides the army with the ability of a cheap affordable way to maneuver the map. This combined partisans could prove devastating as partisans have an even quicker means of traversing the map to plant mines or barbed wire in raids. Fear propaganda is intended to break large enemy infantry clusters to make way for quick counter attacks. Finally, call in the mighty IL-2 to provide anti-tank & anti-infantry support with their powerful 30mm cannons. No unit would dare enter the red circle of death.

How is this different from the Original Partisan Commander?

• This doesn't have mark target a crucial aspect of the doctrine that helped the general army and AT-Partisans pack a punch.
  
• ZI-6 Truck not featured in original Partisan Commander
  
• Less Recon abilities (Spy Network is featured in this doctrine)
  
• Heavyier emphasis on the partisans as a whole
  
• Heavier emphasis on disruption whereas the old commander had a more supportive role with spy network and mark target
  
  
  • Command Point 0: Partisan Support Package
    
    • Give Soviet HQ access to ZI-6 Truck for 200 manpower & 15 fuel
      
    • cheap truck to load units in. partisan drive-bys
      
    • ZI-6 Truck can reinforce units
      
    • ZI-6 Truck can drop medical supplies for 30 munitions
      
    • Partisan Support Package includes Radio Intercept
      
    
    
  • Command Point 1: Partisan Squad (Anti-Infantry Disruption)
    
    • Cost 210
      
    • Instead of razor wire partisan squads are given barbwire which slows people down without blocking the path. Meant to slow people down. The potential for ambush trap
      
    • Partisans can be upgraded with survival training for 40 munitions
      
    • Gives partisan ambush camo
      
    • gives partisan squad more health and armor
      
    • Gives partisan squad sprint ability
      
    • Vet 1 Increased Accuracy & interrogation tactics
      
    • Vet 2 Increased survivability
      
    • Vet 3 Partisan squad gains 5th model (for late game survivability against infantry)
      
    
    
  • Command Point 2: AT Partisan (Anti-Vehicle Disruption)
    
    • Cost: 270 manpower
      
    • Instead of razor wire, AT Partisans are allowed to build tank traps or barricade to stop vehicles (not infantry)
      
    • Instead of the regular mines, partisan irregulars are given light infantry mines.
      
    • Partisans can be upgraded with survival training for 40 munitions
      
    • Gives partisan ambush camo
      
    • Gives partisan squad more health and armor
      
    • Gives AT partisan squad sprint ability
      
    • Vet 1 Increased Accuracy & vehicle tracking ability
      
    • Vet 2 Increased Survivability
      
    • Vet 3 Partisan squad gains 5th model (for late game survivability against tanks)
      
    
    
  • Command Point 4: Fear Propaganda
    
    • More Disruption in line with the commander concept
      
    • prevents blobing and force retreating units
      
    
    
  • Command Point 8: IL-2 Loiter
    
    • 23mm Cannon Strafing Mission
      
    • AOE Disruption
      
      
    
    
  
  
  Now I was debating whether or not the partisan squad should change. I initially wanted to replace them with Soviet irregulars. Equipped 2 man 2TG & 2 SVT for 250 manpower at 2 command points. It's too strong for a 1cp appearance thus it got pushed back to 2cp in line with other calling units of the same caliber. Reason being is that they are an excellent unit that has gathered dust for quite some time. This in part was an attempt to bring back units that at one point was in the game singleplayer and multiplayer under the old Soviet reserve commander. Same with the partisan survival training in addition to the barbwire & barricade.
  
  
  Any unused unit you would like to see come back?

The IR StGs are to blame for that issue; you could use the Panzerfusilier model instead.

Are you going to release your mods for testing?

So today mod team will pick the most promising commanders right ?

So today mod team will pick the most promising commanders right ?

Don#t think so. Users can submit until today. Would not expect a decision before monday /tuesday considering the fact that the team has to read a lot of concepts, some of them were updated.

I had expected much more commander concepts, than we actually did get (both here and on official forum).

I'd rather they take their time deciding; no need to rush.

40-60 suggestions per faction does seem a little low, but not everyone is into designing stuff.

OKW submission feedback and ideas
Here's the link to the commander:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/85213/new-commander-submission-okw/page/2#post_id719758

Would you use this commander in a competitive setting? Any feedback is appreciated.

I'd also like ask anyone for their thoughts on some optional ideas I had for this commander:

250 mortar halftrack: Incendiary barrage gets replaced by phosphorous barrage.

Pro's: Differentiates this mortar halftrack from the Ostheer version and keeps Feuerstorm as the go-to option if you need an early DoT barrage against buildings.
Cons: Some would argue phosphorous is stronger than incendiary. Phosphorous is iconic for USF/UKF.

Panzer IV Ausf. F: Vet 1 blitzkrieg replaced by vet 1 lockdown mode. Toggled ability that makes the P4 immobile, but reduces reload time.

Pro's: Further sets this vehicle apart as an infantry support vehicle.
Cons: Might make the tank too strong in certain situations.

Panzer IV Ausf. F: Can call in Butterfly bombs instead of an artillery strike.

Pro's: Variety. Sets this strike apart from Elite Armor.
Cons: Might make the commander too much of a jack of all trades, unless Butterfly bombs are made weak/situational.

There is a big difference in the balance of the Spotting Scopes ability and the rest of the sight tanks;
+100 vs +10 vs none:

Added note for my OKW Doctrine about how Panther's Infrared Searchlight could work.

No updates or news about what's going on with community commanders? Even if stuff under NDA they could at least announce that commander's propose period is over... or something. For example, it's extended until XX/YY/ZZZZ.

Anyone know if we are getting unit changes also with the patch or is it strictly just new Commanders?

There is a big difference in the balance of the Spotting Scopes ability and the rest of the sight tanks;
+100 vs +10 vs none:

I kinda wish spotting scopes and spec ops flares would finally get the nerfhammer treatment they deserve since they got added to the game. Both are bullshit abilities that cannot be countered

I'd rather they take their time deciding; no need to rush.

40-60 suggestions per faction does seem a little low, but not everyone is into designing stuff.

I think it's also hard to design something that is balanced but good. I took a stab at Soviet and OKW and in both cases what I had made was wither 1) OP or 2) redundant with another commander except for 1 or 2 slots being slightly different. In those cases I figured less noise is better and didn't bother to submit.

Well, the announcement I'd wanted is here. Good.

What are your guys' opinion on number of new abilities?

Some people wanted none, in order to reduce testing.
Not sure if I saw any with 5 new abilities.

I think the sweet spot is 3 for Eastern armies, and 3-4 for Western. That's a good amount of variety without going overboard. I can imagine people being disappointed if the new commanders were remixes of what we have already, especially considering 11 Red Army and 9 Ostheer Commanders don't have anything unique to them.

Anyway, thoughts?

What are your guys' opinion on number of new abilities?

Some people wanted none, in order to reduce testing.
Not sure if I saw any with 5 new abilities.

I think the sweet spot is 3 for Eastern armies, and 3-4 for Western. That's a good amount of variety without going overboard. I can imagine people being disappointed if the new commanders were remixes of what we have already, especially considering 11 Red Army and 9 Ostheer Commanders don't have anything unique to them.

Anyway, thoughts?

I believe we have a fair amount of new units and abilities suggested for the commanders without going overboard, at least too much.

I myself at least tried to limit myself to a maximum of 3 units per commander suggestion.

What are your guys' opinion on number of new abilities?

Some people wanted none, in order to reduce testing.
Not sure if I saw any with 5 new abilities.

I think the sweet spot is 3 for Eastern armies, and 3-4 for Western. That's a good amount of variety without going overboard. I can imagine people being disappointed if the new commanders were remixes of what we have already, especially considering 11 Red Army and 9 Ostheer Commanders don't have anything unique to them.

Anyway, thoughts?

I think you can get very good new commanders with cross over use of existing abilities and some new units. I really tried hard to find a new infantry call-in unit for Wehrmacht but never found a real role for it. New units are really welcome but only if they bring something new to the table what other units cant bring.
You have a fair point with your conclusion about Wehrmacht / Soviet commanders, but on the other side new commanders give us the option to improve existing commanders. Thats why i included the Tiger Ace in my doctrine; i would be good to see the unit reworked, that would also make Elite Troops more attractive to use.

What are your guys' opinion on number of new abilities?

Some people wanted none, in order to reduce testing.
Not sure if I saw any with 5 new abilities.

I think the sweet spot is 3 for Eastern armies, and 3-4 for Western. That's a good amount of variety without going overboard. I can imagine people being disappointed if the new commanders were remixes of what we have already, especially considering 11 Red Army and 9 Ostheer Commanders don't have anything unique to them.

Anyway, thoughts?

A few new-new abilities are probably welcome but honestly even for SOV and OST there are several abilities that are only in one commander that could easily be used and while not new would be nice to have (For Mother Russia, Breakthrough, etc. comes to mind). Since we're limited to units/models already in game I think the best way to think about it is to think of Unit Roles that each army lacks and reskin accordingly. For example I really like Derby Hat's idea of a Light AT Ostruppen squad with AT Rifles since OST is limited to Shreked up PGrens as Infantry AT.

What are your guys' opinion on number of new abilities?

I think the sweet spot is 3 for Eastern armies, and 3-4 for Western. That's a good amount of variety without going overboard. I can imagine people being disappointed if the new commanders were remixes of what we have already, especially considering 11 Red Army and 9 Ostheer Commanders don't have anything unique to them.

Number is irrelevant. New abilities woudn't make commander useful. And useless commanders is the thing we not need or want in the game. I personally also don't want commanders, who is stronger or better than what we have right now.

I don't see problem with remixes, although I can understand what you're talking about.

Term "new ability" can be used not only to new content but also old units/abilities that were completele revamp. Commander doesn't have to have any new stuff to be desirable. Main key is to make good composition of slots that will fill the certain gaps that faction lacks. So overhaul abilities like Hold the Line or TigerAce (for example modify to be Tiger Command Tank) even though they are in game, they will be something new.

Even only slightly improvements to certain units for example panzerfuzzilier or assualt grens (but with diffrent effect than JeagerLightInfantry) will be like renewal and restore old stuff and will give players feeling of fresh a breath of wind into the gameplay.

But to all players who came up with commanders proposal made only with already existing abilities, plz remember that doesn't mean that doctrine will be easy to create. Abilities meansioned about like HullDown, TigerAce, British Hold the Line etc. They need complete changes and have to be make from scrach. It's often easier make something new that fix it. Generally speaking it doesn't matter how many "new" or "old" abilities new commander will include. Most important is how they gonna be implemented and balance.

Let's be honest, all commander proposal aren't perfect and they will have to be slightly revise. I hope balance team will contact with those people and suggest them highly welcome improvement of them before the final vote.