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russian armor

Why Soviets can´t build bunkers?

8 Dec 2018, 14:33 PM
#1
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37

I would like if Soviets could build bunkers.
Wermacht bunkers are much strong then an Soviet halftrack. Wermacht can spam bunkers... Why can´t Soviets?
8 Dec 2018, 14:35 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Soviets are designed as offensive faction, therefore no fortifications.

Spammed bunkers are also a good waste of resources if you bring in penals with satchels to destroy them.
8 Dec 2018, 14:44 PM
#3
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Soviets are designed as offensive faction, therefore no fortifications.

Spammed bunkers are also a good waste of resources if you bring in penals with satchels to destroy them.


Now all the factions are gone from the initial concept. And the Soviets must have bunkers. And it would be nice to have such options in the back-up docherty:
- Casemate artillery installation DOT-4. 45-mm tank gun 20-K, coupled with a DS-39 machine gun on a casemate gun carriage, equipped with an optical sight KT-1.
  - Casemate artillery installation L-17. The L-17 installation consists of a 76-mm tank gun L-11 on a casemate gun mount with a KT-4 optical sight. Because of the short barrel, she could shoot as Stug E.


8 Dec 2018, 14:48 PM
#4
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

I would like if Soviets could build bunkers.
Wermacht bunkers are much strong then an Soviet halftrack. Wermacht can spam bunkers... Why can´t Soviets?


Why do you compare the bunker to the Soviet halftracks?

I guess you do not mean the m3a1 but the upgraded meatgrinder as it is an supressionplatform? if that is the case then you should know that the m5 is quite good against OST light vehicles as the meatgrinder does pen them quite reliable and should win against single 222s (251s anyway) with ease. The m5 halftrack is a pretty fast vehicle that can hunt down and close in on squads to maximise the dps.

If you want an equivalent to the axis binker you should build sandbag positions and place maxims behind it it is obviously more expensive mp and popcap wise but it can reposition and react to new targets and therefore is harder to flank. I wouldn't recommend letting dushkas idle in defensive positions as they are more expensive and have pretty good offensive capabilities but a small cone of fire.
8 Dec 2018, 14:48 PM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Now all the factions are gone from the initial concept. And the Soviets must have bunkers. And it would be nice to have such options in the back-up docherty:
- Casemate artillery installation DOT-4. 45-mm tank gun 20-K, coupled with a DS-39 machine gun on a casemate gun carriage, equipped with an optical sight KT-1.
  - Casemate artillery installation L-17. The L-17 installation consists of a 76-mm tank gun L-11 on a casemate gun mount with a KT-4 optical sight. Because of the short barrel, she could shoot as Stug E.



No, the initial faction theme is still there and isn't going anywhere for all factions.
What we are done with is different factions being stronger/weaker at different game stages - that is gone forever and for a good measure.

We're playing soviets who were on the constant offense in coh2 while it was wehrmacht which was on defense and both factions keep that feeling.
8 Dec 2018, 14:50 PM
#6
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37

I would like that at least a Soviet commander was designed to build bunkers...
I know it´s a game but historically Soviets build bunkers a lot also: Moscow, Leninegrad, Kursk... and so on.
I like to play multiplayer and I act often as a support player: defending territory with mg´s inside buildings, building fuel and ammo caches, flanking axis on less expected part of the map.
Mainly on maps with no buildings at all or only some weak wood buildings, I would like to build 1,2 or 3 bunkers to keep and defend territory while micromanaging infantary or tanks on other parts of the map...
Just a feeling...
Sometimes it´s really hard to destroy a wermacht bunker with penals if the bunker is protected with one or two squads of infantary.
Also i feel okw bunkers are overpowered and impossible to destroy with one or 2 light tanks or even with an su76 (su76 has no range enough to avoid being destroyed by okw bunker)
8 Dec 2018, 14:52 PM
#7
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2


No, the initial faction theme is still there and isn't going anywhere for all factions.
What we are done with is different factions being stronger/weaker at different game stages - that is gone forever and for a good measure.

We're playing soviets who were on the constant offense in coh2 while it was wehrmacht which was on defense and both factions keep that feeling.


Say it to the OKW: which should be a resource hunger but therefore have 5 levels of veterans. Now there is only a shadow left of this concept: the lack of resources caches.
8 Dec 2018, 14:54 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Say it to the OKW: which should be a resource hunger but therefore have 5 levels of veterans. Now there is only a shadow left of this concept: the lack of resources caches.

Lack of resource caches and expensive medium and heavy armor.
Seems appropriate to me.
8 Dec 2018, 15:12 PM
#9
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37



Why do you compare the bunker to the Soviet halftracks?



A wermacht bunker has 3 options and one is as rebuilding squads. Mainlly i use soviets halftrack to rebuild squads on a strong defensive position. That´s the reason I compare bunker to the Soviet halftracks
8 Dec 2018, 15:13 PM
#10
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

I would like that at least a Soviet commander was designed to build bunkers...
I know it´s a game but historically Soviets build bunkers a lot also: Moscow, Leninegrad, Kursk... and so on.
I like to play multiplayer and I act often as a support player: defending territory with mg´s inside buildings, building fuel and ammo caches, flanking axis on less expected part of the map.
Mainly on maps with no buildings at all or only some weak wood buildings, I would like to build 1,2 or 3 bunkers to keep and defend territory while micromanaging infantary or tanks on other parts of the map...
Just a feeling...
Sometimes it´s really hard to destroy a wermacht bunker with penals if the bunker is protected with one or two squads of infantary.
Also i feel okw bunkers are overpowered and impossible to destroy with one or 2 light tanks or even with an su76 (su76 has no range enough to avoid being destroyed by okw bunker)



Historical accuracy is not a high priority when designing a functioning game. Obviously the Soviets also used bunkers in WW2 but that doesn´t mean they should have them in COH2. I don´t like bunkers and emplacements because it makes for boring campy gamestyle and I am glad that at least the UKF ones got nerfed and are less commonly used now. The last thing this games need is yet another faction that can build bunkers.

Also what do you mean when you say OKW bunkers? They have the same bunkers (doctrinally) as Ostheer. Do you mean the AA emplacements? They are more lethal but cost fuel and can easily be destroyed by AT-guns or even SU76 which makes them very situational at best. They have 40 range while AT-guns or SU76, SU 85 etc have 60 range. You can easily outrange them and snipe them from a distance. Just use ground attack or have something to spot them for you.
8 Dec 2018, 15:17 PM
#11
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37


Also what do you mean when you say OKW bunkers? They have the same bunkers (doctrinally) as Ostheer. Do you mean the AA emplacements?


Yes I mean the AA emplacements
8 Dec 2018, 15:21 PM
#12
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37



If you want an equivalent to the axis binker you should build sandbag positions and place maxims behind it it.


I know: but axis can build sand bags also and bunkers; soviets only sandbags... :(
8 Dec 2018, 15:28 PM
#13
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

The factions are assymetrical. Soviets are supposed to use sandbags and team weapons for defence. Ostheer can use bunkers, although they pretty much only do that when popcapped as otherwise it is a waste of resources.

Btw, I knew this would come up now with so many new players. Honestly, that was the first question I asked myself when playing beta. I mean, they even have the model that is used in soviet base. You need to understand the game a bit more to know why developers didn't give bunkers to soviets. I did. You are going to as well.
8 Dec 2018, 15:40 PM
#14
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37

Btw, I knew this would come up now with so many new players. Honestly, that was the first question I asked myself when playing beta. I mean, they even have the model that is used in soviet base. You need to understand the game a bit more to know why developers didn't give bunkers to soviets. I did. You are going to as well.


I´m not a new player. I play the game since preorder. I´m not very good but I´m an avarage player (and sometimes a good player). But I have some limits (i can´t play with keyboard; i only play with the mouse)= I have 52 yo. It´s not easy to me to learn to play otherwise.

But I feel a lot of times that soviet infantary (enginners and conscripts) and some tanks (t34/85 and IS2) are underpowered. I feel that bunkers could help more to defend conquered territory that otherwise is hard to defend..
8 Dec 2018, 15:59 PM
#15
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



I´m not a new player. I play the game since preorder. I´m not very good but I´m an avarage player (and sometimes a good player). But I have some limits (i can´t play with keyboard; i only play with the mouse)= I have 52 yo. It´s not easy to me to learn to play otherwise.

But I feel a lot of times that soviet infantary (enginners and conscripts) and some tanks (t34/85 and IS2) are underpowered. I feel that bunkers could help more to defend conquered territory that otherwise is hard to defend..


I think you should start a thread in gameplay section asking top players for some help. It is much harder to convince community and developer to change a game than to simply try to get some new tricks and strategies that will work better.

I can give you some advice for defending with soviets here though. The conscript is a micro intensive unit, so I would recommend not using it too often if you don't use hotkeys. Instead try maxim mgs for defence against infantry. As for infantry it is a good idea to go guards, as they are great in holding ground against both infantry and vehicles. These two units supported by well placed zis guns are only possible to displace with artillery. But it is a different subject.
8 Dec 2018, 16:18 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Actually there was a commander tested that allowed Soviets to build Dshk bunkers but was never released.
10 Dec 2018, 17:54 PM
#17
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

I think doctrinal bunkers would be cool. I would put them in Defensive Tactics like this:

1 Defensive Construction (MG Bunkers, PMD-6 mines, Tank Traps)
2 HM-38
2 M-45
5 Conscript Repair
8 152mm Barrage (like USF 155mm)
12 Dec 2018, 16:57 PM
#18
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

I think doctrinal bunkers would be cool. I would put them in Defensive Tactics like this:

1 Defensive Construction (MG Bunkers, PMD-6 mines, Tank Traps)
2 HM-38
2 M-45
5 Conscript Repair
8 152mm Barrage (like USF 155mm)


Oh damn. Yea, I want that.
12 Dec 2018, 19:30 PM
#19
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

I'm confused. Are we talking about the concrete bunkers in the new Def doctrine or the regular Ost bunkers (holes with wood) that we have since release? For the latter we already have the skin/ unit. It's in the Russki base.
18 Dec 2018, 22:28 PM
#20
avatar of AntAttack

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2018, 19:30 PMButcher
I'm confused. Are we talking about the concrete bunkers in the new Def doctrine or the regular Ost bunkers (holes with wood) that we have since release? For the latter we already have the skin/ unit. It's in the Russki base.


I mean the «the regular Ost bunkers (holes with wood)» but it could be a good ideal also «concrete bunkers» or even empty bunkers (holes with sand bags of british faction)
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