Spotting Scopes

Is it fair that spooting scopes has no delay time to give vision ?

Hello Hello i've played a few games lately as axis and especially as OH and i used spotting scopes and imo the fact that you can use a panther with it, dive in ennemy lines and whenever you press the stop key/button you have instantly vision feels a bit OP because the upgrade is like just 30 ammo and gives you a lot of vision without any delay or no other backlash, it feels imo too much a win win situation for using them. I feel when you have the micro to do it, it gives you a bit to much of an advantage. What you guys think about it ?

If any thread or balance discussion about this has beed made plz link them to me.

And well stay gentle to eachother.

it does not grant extra vision if tank moves any bit. In particural stugs and elefants use of it can be easily interrupted by just flanking them or better yet using just anti tank infanty. It was cheesy with 222 sight radius vet, but it has been nerfed ages ago.

Its not the most common ability either as its only available in 2 commanders.

Yes but the commander are very meta right now and whenever your tank stop it has double the vision, wich his imo a bit unfair when you have some micro to do it, because you can stop (get vision) and shoot then back.

At most I could see a price increase. Iirc it's fairly cheap for a permanent boost. Pretty well a no Brainer but I'm always looking for more choice so maybe ignore me...

A small activation delay wouldn't hurt. Especially the Elefant has an easy time self-spotting with the scope because at max range the gun traverse is enough to track targets and it doesn't have to turn much, so it almost always has vision. Something like a 3 second delay would go a long way in making it less powerful in offensive situations while remaining as good in defensive ones.

It is in the game since 5 1/2 years and ok like it is.
If I choose a doctrine with scopes, I decide against G43, stuka anti tank and smoke, so it should at least perform well to give sight.

If it needs to change for balance it needs to change for balance, but it's already pretty awkward to use. You usually advance a long range unit with Attack Move so it stops when it hits firing range. With Scopes you have to sort of creep it forward.

It is in the game since 5 1/2 years and ok like it is.
If I choose a doctrine with scopes, I decide against G43, stuka anti tank and smoke, so it should at least perform well to give sight.

Just because something is in the game for a long time, doesn't mean it's not broken. Scopes, get-out-smoke and artillery flares are bullshit abilities that require no skill or can not be countered.

Just because something is in the game for a long time, doesn't mean it's not broken. Scopes, get-out-smoke and artillery flares are bullshit abilities that require no skill or can not be countered.

+1

Now where vet 3 T70 maphack and valentine maphack will be gone forever, I think the time has come that these 3 axis abilities get the nerfs they deserve.

Here's a better question. What would you like spotting scopes to do instead of what they do now?

Here's a better question. What would you like spotting scopes to do instead of what they do now?

there are multiple options to balance them.

For example -as mentioned earlier- add a delay between standing still and the ability taking effect
...or remove the permanent part of it and change it so scopes unlock a timed ability that costs munitions (similar to vet 1 ability of ZiS3, SU76 and SU85)
...or change the ability completely and it now grants additional maingun accuracy while standing still, instead of additional sight.

Here's a better question. What would you like spotting scopes to do instead of what they do now?

Oh, there are many options:

- restrict the field of view to a cone
- toggled ability with restriction to gun usage or mobility
- turn the the sight modifier into a straight number buff
- put in a delay, before the ability kicks in

etc.

there are multiple options to balance them.

For example -as mentioned in the OP- add a delay between standing still and the ability taking effect
...or remove the permanent part of it and change it so scopes unlock a timed ability that costs munitions (similar to vet 1 ability of ZiS3, SU76 and SU85)
...or change the ability completely and it now grants additional maingun accuracy while standing still, instead of additional sight.

1st one sounds... clunky.

2nd one sounds decent, but the scopes would have to be free so it isn't a massive sink.

3rd one I like the best.

Lets make it similar to UKF tank commanders +10 visions 1.1 accuracy.

Hey, another (indirect) Elefant nerf. That is exactly what this game needs.

Ability need changes, after t-70 nerf and even before it, it was to strong and now with meta doc in 2v2-4v4 its give to strong advantage for ostheer. Panther or ele with 70 vision range, comon.

It is important to understand why the recon abilities feel so much stronger now than they did 4 years ago. As far as I can see people started to see more and more value in the recon in coh2 for two reasons. First is that with the removal of units imballanced dps-wise, people are searching for other ways to get the advantage over their opponent. The second, is that the community simply has better understaning of the game with every year and thus values recon more than ever. Five years ago when these abilities were designed and ballanced nobody would use recon in coh2, so the recon abilties had to be very strong and yet they were still forgotten. Right now that everybody wants to have as good recon as possible, they need some adjustments.

That said, for the same reasons it is important that these abilities keep their role! Otherwise we will be back to 2013, not because we don't want to use recon, but because we removed it...

As for spotting scopes themselves, the situation is similar as with t-70. They need some stat adjustment, but they need to be kept in recon role and they should not be changed into a muni sink. Why? Because then they are stright worse versions of plane recon abilities. You need to micro your vehicle, keep it in the right position, risk getting killed, and have to pay munit on top of that just to get some sight? Why don't you dump that muni in the recon overflight then?

That is why the only possible adjustments that make any sense are:
1. Delay
2. Decreasing the arc of sight
3. Decreasing the range of sight
4. Maybe some toggles. Handbreak would be too punishing micro wise, but disabling the gun when the ability is active could work and push players into using a spotter vehicle for their elefant as opposed to mounting scopes on the elefant itself.

Sure, but buff Stug range so it can trade max range shots with allied TD without having to move closer to the battle line. Also buff armor and HP on the half-track and scout car to compensate for the extra exposure to hostile fire.

E: also buff mortar range.

Ostheer is outranged on all fronts by the allies which forces them to attack standoff players. Being able to see what you *have* to assault beforehand is the major reason scopes are the way they are.

Sure, but buff Stug range so it can trade max range shots with allied TD without having to move closer to the battle line. Also buff armor and HP on the half-track and scout car to compensate for the extra exposure to hostile fire.

E: also buff mortar range.

Ostheer is outranged on all fronts by the allies which forces them to attack standoff players. Being able to see what you *have* to assault beforehand is the major reason scopes are the way they are.

==========
- OST demanded Brit mortar pit range be reduced.
To balance things, everyone's mortar (inc OST) range was reduced.
- OST/OKW demanded Allied TDs be nerfed. They were nerfed and Panther's armor and Hulldown and
Command tank were all nerfed.
- StuG could eat allied heavies solo (while being cheaper than a T34) and as such was nerfed.

- You asking StuG to NOW be buffed...
Do you want StuG range buffed to 60 so that allied TD range be buffed to 80?
Do you want StuG power buffed so that ALL allied vehicle armor be buffed?
Allies have X, so axis should have it too.

... Do you want all axis and allies to have the same unit stats? For the entire game to be mirror stats?

Units are supposed to have pros and cons. If they're all pros, then it no longer is a game.
It falls into non-brainer.

If STUG have same cost, but AT of Panther, range of Jackson and HE of Sturmtiger, with a turret and
3x MGs of Pz4 but with front armor of Brummbarr...

... Would anyone do anything else?

Your comment is like hey : Scissors rock vs paper, but if you make it immune to rock and able
to rape other scissors AND rocks, then it'd feel just right. Oh, and keep it cheaper than enemy
units also

... Bias, anyone?

==========
- OST demanded Brit mortar pit range be reduced.
To balance things, everyone's mortar (inc OST) range was reduced.
- OST/OKW demanded Allied TDs be nerfed. They were nerfed and Panther's armor and Hulldown and
Command tank were all nerfed.
- StuG could eat allied heavies solo (while being cheaper than a T34) and as such was nerfed.

- You asking StuG to NOW be buffed...
Do you want StuG range buffed to 60 so that allied TD range be buffed to 80?
Do you want StuG power buffed so that ALL allied vehicle armor be buffed?
Allies have X, so axis should have it too.

... Do you want all axis and allies to have the same unit stats? For the entire game to be mirror stats?

Units are supposed to have pros and cons. If they're all pros, then it no longer is a game.
It falls into non-brainer.

If STUG have same cost, but AT of Panther, range of Jackson and HE of Sturmtiger, with a turret and
3x MGs of Pz4 but with front armor of Brummbarr...

... Would anyone do anything else?

Your comment is like hey : Scissors rock vs paper, but if you make it immune to rock and able
to rape other scissors AND rocks, then it'd feel just right. Oh, and keep it cheaper than enemy
units also

... Bias, anyone?

I'm happy with things they way they are TBH. The point of my post is that spotting scopes are there to hedge the asymmetrical range disadvantages OST faces. Maybe I should have pointed out I was being sarcastic with the buffs as I do enjoy the asymmetry.