i think he was refering about the late game post
You just solved all USF early game problems.
Grenadiers + HMG42s vs USF
6 Nov 2018, 13:40 PM
#21
Posts: 4474
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
6 Nov 2018, 15:11 PM
#22
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
I think the SturmSherman will be much better if it goes live in it's current state, for completely neutering infantry play that is, but that's not the point here... USF slow start really feels weird, I'm still getting used to it, nothing wrong with it now that the faction has some sort of lategame.
6 Nov 2018, 19:52 PM
#23
Posts: 107
I do not think this person is wrong. The fundamental problem with USF is that Riflemen is always forced to approach the enemy. This is similar to how Fallschirmjager or Panzer Grenadiers feel much weaker than their original performance. This game is very difficult to use close combat specific units. This tendency is even worse for early games. The current Riflemen is unlikely to have a clear advantage over Volksgrenadiers until riflemen has a doubled BAR. (Experimentation with a custom game shows that 1BAR Riflemen has exactly the same performance as the StG44 Volksgrenadiers.) On the other hand, the speed and cost of reinforcement, and the overall squad number make it difficult to gain an early game advantage. Grenadier thinks it should be a unit supporting hmg, but nowadays the meta of the game is feeling that spamming Grenadiers rather than using hmg (mg42) is more like mainstream. (Especially G43). This tendency is deepened in a considerable number of high level users, especially in 1v1 games.
6 Nov 2018, 19:59 PM
#24
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
(Experimentation with a custom game shows that 1BAR Riflemen has exactly the same performance as the StG44 Volksgrenadiers.)
No need to experiment, the numbers are there provided by Cruzz. Rifleman with 1 BAR DPS outperforms STG 44 Volks DPS at every range. Low range DPS is over 150% more. Only mid range is close, but still about 120% afaik.
6 Nov 2018, 20:11 PM
#25
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
No need to experiment, the numbers are there provided by Cruzz. Rifleman with 1 BAR DPS outperforms STG 44 Volks DPS at every range. Low range DPS is over 150% more. Only mid range is close, but still about 120% afaik.
Counting free sandbag and flamnade + higher RM price and reinforcement cost, that's not really ok.
But yeah, nowaday Riflemen are lacklust early game as a unit, problem is you can't do shit without them.
6 Nov 2018, 20:36 PM
#26
Posts: 2358
Counting free sandbag and flamnade + higher RM price and reinforcement cost, that's not really ok.
...
Because volks can intant build sbags and lavanades can wipe as easly
6 Nov 2018, 20:38 PM
#27
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Counting free sandbag and flamnade + higher RM price and reinforcement cost, that's not really ok.
Something something free squads with tech
6 Nov 2018, 20:54 PM
#28
Posts: 107
No need to experiment, the numbers are there provided by Cruzz. Rifleman with 1 BAR DPS outperforms STG 44 Volks DPS at every range. Low range DPS is over 150% more. Only mid range is close, but still about 120% afaik.
Is that really true? If that's true, then why am I wondering why this happens every time I experiment? The figure of 150% is also a big difference. I am aware of the difference in firepower that can not be reversed by RNG. For example, the DPS calculations show that the zero range DPS of the Penal Battalion Squad and the Pioneer Squad is 150% greater than the DPS. That is a very big difference that anyone would notice. Also, in a custom game, this difference is largely a result of many experiments. In many cases I trust the calculation of cruzz, but this time I have some questions about whether it is true or not. Is it just curiosity and can I get a link to that study?
6 Nov 2018, 20:57 PM
#29
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
I think the SturmSherman will be much better if it goes live in it's current state, for completely neutering infantry play that is, but that's not the point here... USF slow start really feels weird, I'm still getting used to it, nothing wrong with it now that the faction has some sort of lategame.
Same, going from hyper aggression early to mid as USF into a weak early game feels off after playing them for the early game for so long. Although I prefer it over auto losing in the late game.
I still think the only thing keeping USF down is its awful tech structure. That and how USF gets crushed early by OKW.
bg /l
6 Nov 2018, 21:00 PM
#30
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Something something free squads with tech
Something something not spending 50 fuel that doesn't contribute to actual tech to upgrade weapons and use these nades.
I'd say it balances out.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Nov 2018, 21:02 PM
#31
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Something something free squads with tech
Free squad isn't going to make riflemen any better vs Volks/gren.
6 Nov 2018, 21:29 PM
#32
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
You just solved all USF early game problems.
If only I could solve OKWs lategame problems too
6 Nov 2018, 21:34 PM
#33
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
If only I could solve OKWs lategame problems too
Make strumtiger fire a nuke instead of scary fireworks.
bg /l
6 Nov 2018, 21:38 PM
#34
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Make strumtiger fire a nuke instead of scary fireworks.
I mean if we're actually going to attempt at that problem you just need some kind of AI on an armor piece that isn't the P4. Either making the KT good again or adding the ostwind. Right now if your opponet has TDs and rocket arty your 4 man obers and tanks just get rolled. Only to be saved by cloak rak cheese.
6 Nov 2018, 22:03 PM
#35
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Free squad isn't going to make riflemen any better vs Volks/gren.
However it is going to make your riflemen cost argument way less valid because USF has a huge manpower advantage with the free officer squad.
Something something not spending 50 fuel that doesn't contribute to actual tech to upgrade weapons and use these nades.
I'd say it balances out.
That's largely offset by OKW having to pay more fuel in total to get a medium tank out. Anyway the fact that it's quite balanced is exactly my point. USF suffers from bad tech but it definitely does not suffer from Riflemen supposedly being not good enough.
7 Nov 2018, 00:45 AM
#36
Posts: 3053
But I can't slap BARs onto a mortar and attack move them. Relic needs to fix this obvious oversight and balance issue
Now I’ve got this image of sentient mortar shells dual wielding BARs and owning poor hans. Thank you for making my day sir.
However it is going to make your riflemen cost argument way less valid because USF has a huge manpower advantage with the free officer squad.
That's largely offset by OKW having to pay more fuel in total to get a medium tank out. Anyway the fact that it's quite balanced is exactly my point. USF suffers from bad tech but it definitely does not suffer from Riflemen supposedly being not good enough.
Except for the part where usf spends 300 mp on sidetechs and 250 for healing in exchange.
Okw (if they go battlegroup) has to spend 15 twice on 2 sws halftracks (30) plus like 30 on the battlegroup tech and 10 (or 15? I don’t remember) more on medics and then 125(?) on the schwerer. That’s a total of 200 fuel for their first tank if they don’t build any light vehicles. Going mech is a different story (20 more fuel) but obviously you’ll be using light vehicles in that case and tanks will be delayed more significantly from that.
USF spends 50-60 on an officer (lt or capt) then 120 for the major. However, weapon racks and nades as well as an ambulance are more or less required to be competitive, adding an additional 15+25+10=50 fuel. So best case scenario they spend 220 fuel before they get access to tanks if they don’t build lights either.
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7 Nov 2018, 01:49 AM
#37
Posts: 5279
30 on sws trucks, 25 for med iirc(55), 15 for medics (70) then 120 for schwere (190) reaching this point enables use of: an MG, AT, cpver/garrison denial/ mg remover, a weapon unlock, elite infantry, area denial emplacement and toggle AA and a snare as well as access to armour.
But those usf free squads tho....
But those usf free squads tho....
#stalinwept
7 Nov 2018, 03:22 AM
#38
Posts: 130
If only I could solve OKWs lategame problems too
In fact, If there's no more call-in tanks anymore, OKW can dominate the game all the time.
According to my personal experience in 1v1, everthing works fine until a IS-2 or Pershing hit the field. They could be support by AT guns while U could not due to the lack of regular AT.
And in team games, with a good werh mate, everything works fine through out the game
7 Nov 2018, 03:32 AM
#39
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
In fact, If there's no more call-in tanks anymore, OKW can dominate the game all the time.
According to my personal experience in 1v1, everthing works fine until a IS-2 or Pershing hit the field. They could be support by AT guns while U could not due to the lack of regular AT.
And in team games, with a good werh mate, everything works fine through out the game
Personal experience in 1v1? All 12 games worth?
7 Nov 2018, 06:25 AM
#40
Posts: 130
Personal experience in 1v1? All 12 games worth?
Play With friends who plays well in 1v1 in custom, usually.
Anyway, OKW is the best faction in early game, and bad in late due to lack of AT support, right? U have to build to tanks to counter.
And without Pershing, I see no point that USF could turn the tie of battle when in disadvantage against OKW in early and mid game.
Back to the topic. The main problem USF faces now is lacking combat units. Werh get 2 buildings to produce troops, and Okw get a free SP. Meanwhile, riflemen is not good enough to charge and win a fight against cheaper Gren or Volks in green cover. So USF really struggle in early games. How can U flank when U do not have superiority in number? And Gren and Volks can upgrade their weapons earlier only add to the problem. Riflemen are good late game inf With double bar. However, U are facing Werh brummbear and OKW Obers(340mp) rather than Grens and Volks now.
USF units and techs are overall expensive , which makes this faction suck
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