Buff Ostwind

As long nothing is done to Ostwind it will never be in my choice of building it. Reducing it's fuel cost could be another small change that might tempt someone to go for it. My opinion is that it cost too much for what it does, cannot handle even T70 (which cost less), doesn't for price of 100 fuel do that much AI damage what it's supposed to do.

At this point in time there is no point in building Ostwind when you can wait 20 fuel more and get PzIV rather.

Ostwind can not kill a model with one shot no matter which side of shotblocker they are. It does 40 damage so that is simply incorrect.

Have you checked for criticals?

T-70 also always dealt 40 dmg and it was perfectly fine OHK-ing models up until 2016.

This is essentially the problem. It comes at a premium fuel prices and doesn't offer anything for that premium. In 9 out of 10 cases, the Pz IV is far more solid choice.

Furthermore, the Ostwind doesn't really provides an answer and nor it is a viable to any situation or strategy.

Did your opponent go for a light vehicle rush? Well, Ostwind can't deal with them, heck it can hardly finish off even a halftruck before it gets away, and its still has mediocre performance against infantry. You are far better off if you rely on MGs and Paks in such situation until you can affor a Pz IV, which gives you the advantage.

If your opponent went infantry hordes and rushes for medium tanks, getting an Ostwind is the worst choice you can possible have. It cannot escape mediums, and you have just flushed down 100 fuel on the toilet that could have gone into your own medium tank or TD. Plus it doesn't really helps you in the infantry horde phase either, since infantry held AT tends to damage it enough that it will have to pull back.

Its only late game use is in team games if your opponents spam air cover or Il2s, and has some use as a respond unit for sneaky cap attempts, but since most handheld infantry AT will drive it away (and possibly destroy it), its ineffective even for riot control.

Ostwind needs a place, fit into a strategy and right now the only place it has would be a hard counter of light vehicle rush strategies, but for this it needs far higher DPS (=higher RoF, basically) against lights to be effectice in such a role.

Have you checked for criticals?

T-70 also always dealt 40 dmg and it was perfectly fine OHK-ing models up until 2016.

Stop being lazy check for yourself.
BB Have a nice day

This is essentially the problem. It comes at a premium fuel prices and doesn't offer anything for that premium. In 9 out of 10 cases, the Pz IV is far more solid choice.

Ostwind needs a place, fit into a strategy and right now the only place it has would be a hard counter of light vehicle rush strategies, but for this it needs far higher DPS (=higher RoF, basically) against lights to be effectice in such a role.

It needs a ability to increase penetration or similar ability like Sherman have ability swap what ammo it uses HE for AI & AP for light vehicle & Medium tanks.

Check my revamp-test-mod. I overworked the Ostwind.

This is essentially the problem. It comes at a premium fuel prices and doesn't offer anything for that premium. In 9 out of 10 cases, the Pz IV is far more solid choice.

[...]
Ostwind needs a place, fit into a strategy and right now the only place it has would be a hard counter of light vehicle rush strategies, but for this it needs far higher DPS (=higher RoF, basically) against lights to be effectice in such a role.

+1000

Ostwind is unit that really needs some love from the mod team. I see only 2 options:
- Performance stays at the current level- than the fuel price needs to go down significantly (70fuel would be ok). The difference to the P4 (50 fuel) and the earlier arrival could make the unit more attractive.
- Unit get a real role and redesign. But its not as easy as it seems, P4 occupies the spot of the generalist in T3 and the Brummbaer is the dedicated anti-blob killer.

I can only speak for myself but i would like to see the Ostwind be a better armoured version of OKW's Flakht with decent suppression and with no need to re-aim after moving.

An other idea: Ostwind is moved to T2 but you would need to sidetech to build it(Like the AEC). Then it could fill in the role of stop gap unit until you get your Brumm / Panther.

+1000

Ostwind is unit that really needs some love from the mod team. I see only 2 options:
- Performance stays at the current level- than the fuel price needs to go down significantly (70fuel would be ok). The difference to the P4 (50 fuel) and the earlier arrival could make the unit more attractive.
- Unit get a real role and redesign. But its not as easy as it seems, P4 occupies the spot of the generalist in T3 and the Brummbaer is the dedicated anti-blob killer.

I can only speak for myself but i would like to see the Ostwind be a better armoured version of OKW's Flakht with decent suppression and with no need to re-aim after moving.

An other idea: Ostwind is moved to T2 but you would need to sidetech to build it(Like the AEC). Then it could fill in the role of stop gap unit until you get your Brumm / Panther.

One of the problem is that you don't need Ostwind as it's performance is low and mainly the main trouble isn't infantry, but the fast light vehicle play of Allies. Ostwind doesn't help you at all against the light vehicle play which in a weird way is the main reason every single OST player avoids building it.

I mean, who on earth would think that the fast tracking turret of an ostwind and its autoloader firing 37mm cannon couldnt deal just fine with LV's! That would be insane! Because a BOFORS can Pen a Pz4 but for the sake of realism the ostwind rarely gets through a sheet of plywood. Wow!
Also pointing out, Ostwind was mounted on a Pz4 chasis, but on the other side its so fragile to manheld AT...

I think if it had reliable AA it'd be more or less fine. Maybe tweak its vet around a bit but it can still be decent in terms of AI. I don't think it needs to get any major changes. Should remove its minimum range though :/

I think if it had reliable AA it'd be more or less fine. Maybe tweak its vet around a bit but it can still be decent in terms of AI. I don't think it needs to get any major changes. Should remove its minimum range though :/

Who needs more AA as Ostheer? 222 and all useful tanks have MG42 on turret. It should be a AI like Centaur is, because beside Brummbär Ostheer has no AI tank. Panzer IV is a joke in comparison with T34/76. And all commander-stuff is also not that great as well. Tiger is worse than Pershing and IS2. StuG E is worse than M8A1.

Test my revamp-test-mod. I gave it a other weapon-profile.

it should probably have a wider far AOE to make it more consistent. as it is any AT infantry can give it chase which is rather silly

Who needs more AA as Ostheer? 222 and all useful tanks have MG42 on turret. It should be a AI like Centaur is, because beside Brummbär Ostheer has no AI tank. Panzer IV is a joke in comparison with T34/76. And all commander-stuff is also not that great as well. Tiger is worse than Pershing and IS2. StuG E is worse than M8A1.

Test my revamp-test-mod. I gave it a other weapon-profile.

The Tiger is worse than an IS2, the Panzer 4 a joke compared with a T34/76?
Please explain this to me, I need to be enlightened about these match-ups.

The Tiger is worse than an IS2, the Panzer 4 a joke compared with a T34/76?
Please explain this to me, I need to be enlightened about these match-ups.

It is how the T34 works:

To compensate the 3MGs of Panzer 4 T34/76 gets nearly the same dps on ist hull-MG. That means that it shots at one model instead of 3 random at anything. That is a real killing-machine. Also the main-gun is better versus infantry, for lacking in AT.

Tiger 1 is ok like it is. It could get some range-buffs, instead of 45-> Vet2 50 it could be 50 -> Vet2 55. In comparison with IS2 is has very less oae and survisibility. It depends on the map, sometime it hits nothing, sometimes it is ok. Last game I had one with 61kills... normally it is shit and neves has a positive statistic. Still bad for a vehicle with that high price and bad armor. (bad armor because so many counters, and less HP than Churchill) On a 1vs1 it loses against IS2. And Pershing has also more aoe, the better Tiger. (Beside Pershing should perform like Tiger, would be a massive nerf lol)

Just give ostwind suppression and a little more dmg/armour, so it required AT guns or medium tanks to deal with, rather than 2 squads of riflemen with zooks or 3 penall/guard with PTRS.

It is how the T34 works:

To compensate the 3MGs of Panzer 4 T34/76 gets nearly the same dps on ist hull-MG. That means that it shots at one model instead of 3 random at anything. That is a real killing-machine. Also the main-gun is better versus infantry, for lacking in AT.

Tiger 1 is ok like it is. It could get some range-buffs, instead of 45-> Vet2 50 it could be 50 -> Vet2 55. In comparison with IS2 is has very less oae and survisibility. It depends on the map, sometime it hits nothing, sometimes it is ok. Last game I had one with 61kills... normally it is shit and neves has a positive statistic. Still bad for a vehicle with that high price and bad armor. (bad armor because so many counters, and less HP than Churchill) On a 1vs1 it loses against IS2. And Pershing has also more aoe, the better Tiger. (Beside Pershing should perform like Tiger, would be a massive nerf lol)

How is the T34/76 main gun better against infantry than the P4 main-gun? You are just making stuff up dude. Check stats before you make posts like this.

Also the Tiger is hit or miss but the IS2 is fine? Are we even playing the same game? The IS2 is indeed better than the Tiger but NOT because it has more reliable damage. The IS2 is the real RNG cannon that either misses completely or wipes 3-4 models while the Tiger does relatively consistent damage. The really good thing about the IS2 is 375 armor.

Just give ostwind suppression and a little more dmg/armour, so it required AT guns or medium tanks to deal with, rather than 2 squads of riflemen with zooks or 3 penall/guard with PTRS.

Thats a terrible idea. Ost already has MG42s and cheap bunkers, they surely don't need more suppression. It would just make playing vs defensive Ost players even more annoying.

Thats a terrible idea. Ost already has MG42s and cheap bunkers, they surely don't need more suppression. It would just make playing vs defensive Ost players even more annoying.

I'm newish, didn't even know OST had one, never seen it used by them. I ment the OKW one, and a suppression platform like that would be useful.

How is the T34/76 main gun better against infantry than the P4 main-gun? You are just making stuff up dude. Check stats before you make posts like this.

Also the Tiger is hit or miss but the IS2 is fine? Are we even playing the same game? The IS2 is indeed better than the Tiger but NOT because it has more reliable damage. The IS2 is the real RNG cannon that either misses completely or wipes 3-4 models while the Tiger does relatively consistent damage. The really good thing about the IS2 is 375 armor.

T34/76, maybe has worse DPS as the P4 because of longer reload. But it main-gun has "damage_all_in_hold", PnzIV doesn't. Any units outside the actual AoE of the weapon will be hit as if they were at the edge of the AoE. Increasing it's AI performance.
+
Also the MG of T34 overperformes. It's hull-MG doese more damage as bouth MGs of Panzer 4. Which will shoot on different units. Effect, T34 kills men by men. Panzer 4 makes some squad-damage.

Comparing Tiger 1 and IS2 is difficult. In a 1vs1 IS2 will easy win. It has more AOE, but worse reload. It has hore armor. Tiger often misses same as IS2, but ist reload compensate. Better compare Pershing and Tiger, where Pershing has way better gun.
+
The real differences are, that IS2 will bounce some shots instead of Tiger.

T34/76, maybe has worse DPS as the P4 because of longer reload. But it main-gun has "damage_all_in_hold", PnzIV doesn't. Any units outside the actual AoE of the weapon will be hit as if they were at the edge of the AoE. Increasing it's AI performance.
+
Also the MG of T34 overperformes. It's hull-MG doese more damage as bouth MGs of Panzer 4. Which will shoot on different units. Effect, T34 kills men by men. Panzer 4 makes some squad-damage.

Comparing Tiger 1 and IS2 is difficult. In a 1vs1 IS2 will easy win. It has more AOE, but worse reload. It has hore armor. Tiger often misses same as IS2, but ist reload compensate. Better compare Pershing and Tiger, where Pershing has way better gun.
+
The real differences are, that IS2 will bounce some shots instead of Tiger.

"damage_all_in_hold" effects units that are in garrison or HT.

T-34/76 might have higher reload but it start firing faster with veterancy. Actually if one compares to Ostwind T-34/76 cost about the same while being superior against most target that are not planes.