Volks are disgustingly good, need toning down.

Then why cant we tweaking this ratio into a real bad ratio for volks, for example 250 to call and 350 to full reinforce, since they overdo other squads, they are kind of "premium" generalist infantry in early-midgame. Then punish bad plays and model loss, germany had fewer soldiers late in war, you cant spare them to die.

"Let's just make them cost 87 mp per model to reinforce."

"Let's just make them cost 87 mp per model to reinforce."

I'd assume he means the whole: reinforce cost = (squad cost / 2) / # of members

In which case he means that volks should cost 35 per model to reinforce. You know, because they overdo other squads like riflemen, which have higher DPS, better RA, and stronger vet.

Right...because the alternative to "going volks" for okw is spamming raketens, kubels, or sturms as your core infantry. I just struggle to see your point since you're saying something along the lines of "theres no down side to building a core infantry squad instead of going a complete troll build."

Volks are cons 2.0 for only 10 mp more. They have no side tech that delays your tech. anything cons do that volks can do as well volks do a lot better. Their total package is to potent. you dont need anything else except hard at. Sturms obers kubels all are under used because off how potent volks are.

Also, depends on what you're considering mid game. Most people would say 15, maybe even as early as 10 minutes. By that point, IS and riflemen should both be outDPSing and outlasting volks.

I agree on this. I just mean to say other main lines have more clear weakneses. Volks appear to have next to none imo.

Which, again, has absolutely nothing to do with volks "punching above their weight."

They're not too cost effective, which is what the term implies.

My issue, as you alluded to, is that people are making OKW issues seem like volks issues when they're not.

Volks feels to push above their weight because of absence of downside in some matchup.

"Let's just make them cost 87 mp per model to reinforce."

Hahaha it would be terrible if that happened. I wasnt aware of the final reinforce cost.
Tnx anyway.

Jae for jett got around this problem pretty quick and i stick to his idea now

I'd say that, playing as americans, volks span is so disgutingly easy to outperform rifles. I don't think they should cost much more though, maybe 10MP.

My suggestion, for americans, is a little different. I'd say that the best buff would be reduce rifle build time by some 10%. Build time is a major offender for feeling so much pressure early game.

There is a bulletin that allows for just that. Give it a go and see if you feel better about the match up

You'll only feel that you're waiting for the mp to start building your next riflesquad

Yeah after my last 20 or so games I do think volks need...adjusting. Or the OKW's ability to support large numbers of them in team games.

Volks feels to push above their weight because of absence of downside in some matchup.

they lose at mid range and close but have a 0.3 dps advantage at long range base over RM , and most fight don't happen at long range simply thanks to how the terrain is made, only cons have a bit less dps than them but vet 1 gives back the advantage to cons

I'd assume he means the whole: reinforce cost = (squad cost / 2) / # of members

In which case he means that volks should cost 35 per model to reinforce. You know, because they overdo other squads like riflemen, which have higher DPS, better RA, and stronger vet.

250/5 = 50
50/2 = 25

Why is everyone crying about Volks when US and Brits can have double lmgs or handheld AT and Penals rekk face and can get ptrs and sticky satchel?

Volks aren't THAT good

250/5 = 50
50/2 = 25

Why is everyone crying about Volks when US and Brits can have double lmgs or handheld AT and Penals rekk face and can get ptrs and sticky satchel?

Volks aren't THAT good

It might be that volks are 250mp when Tommies and rifles are 280mp or that Tommies and rifles need to side tech and dump double the muni to have double lmgs to wreck face. Of and likley have to hit base to GET those guns, not enemy territory. AND they need to throw more fuel at being able to deny cover via grenades.

As for penals, well that are 300mp and require a building that is 160mp (so getting the first penal out the OKW will can have 2 volks to support their Sturm vs 1 penal and a CE) penals are strong but pay for it by early game map control, and their AT upgrade makes them very vulnerable to stg volks. If you are afraid of the AT satchel, don't let them get within 10 range of you and you will be fine. It's there to keep you from being able to squish them and disrupt their rifles, it's defensive primarily.

Everyone is complaining about volks because they are even comparable to more expensive to get squads with more munitions dumped that require even more fuel and even more manpower to even unlock. Volks get everything without having to invest anything WHILE being able to put up a fight against larger investments

they lose at mid range and close but have a 0.3 dps advantage at long range base over RM , and most fight don't happen at long range simply thanks to how the terrain is made, only cons have a bit less dps than them but vet 1 gives back the advantage to cons

And now you add sandbag and flamnade in the contest.

My suggestion for VG would be:

1) Replace Flame-grenade with normal grenade. The flame grenade could be moved to SP (if they become cheaper (2MP+2MP44) or available with a non doctrinal MP40 upgrade, so that they can fight garrison easier. (Further anti-garrion option could be a direct fire option Leig with sorter range, and a WP shell for puma or a redesigned walking stuka)

Reason: Mainline infantry should not have easy access to anti-cover/anti-garrison tools.

2) Remove sandbags from all mainline infantry and/or greatly increase build time when done by non engineer squads.

Reason:
Green cover should not be so easily available. People should be able to take advantage of the map and not built cover where ever they want easily.

3) Redesign the ST44 upgrade. ST44 upgrade now requires 2 truck set up and give 5 ST44 on semi auto mod. The performance is similar to "carbine" semi auto rifle. They have a timed ability allowing them to use full auto with a performance similar to PG ST44.

Reason: The ST44 if closer to real performance and easier for player to understand the use of it. In addition the unit can now support long range units like Obers or non upgraded VG from being overrun by allied infantry. Making the increased performance a timed one will prevent blobing.

And now you add sandbag and flamnade in the contest.

like other factions ? what ? did they steal the frag and molotov ? or cons sand bags ? other factions have equivalents abilities

My suggestion for VG would be:

1) Replace Flame-grenade with normal grenade. The flame grenade could be moved to SP (if they become cheaper (2MP+2MP44) or available with a non doctrinal MP40 upgrade, so that they can fight garrison easier. (Further anti-garrion option could be a direct fire option Leig with sorter range, and a WP shell for puma or a redesigned walking stuka)

Reason: Mainline infantry should not have easy access to anti-cover/anti-garrison tools.

even easier, for SP are only a problem cause they are free unit first, just let the starting SP have mp 40 and let them upgrade for 15/30 munitions 120 second upgrade to mp 44 and don't touch the unit when bought

It might be that volks are 250mp when Tommies and rifles are 280mp or that Tommies and rifles need to side tech and dump double the muni to have double lmgs to wreck face...

But in the end, rifles and tommies end with an egde in firepower and map control. Its more expensive but its reliable.

...Of and likley have to hit base to GET those guns, not enemy territory. AND they need to throw more fuel at being able to deny cover via grenades.

I understand that it is annoying, but its not even close to a disadvantage, soon or later squads retreat to reinforce or heal. Its just a minor detail, no big deal, or is it?

Everyone is complaining about volks because they are even comparable to more expensive to get squads with more munitions dumped that require even more fuel and even more manpower to even unlock. Volks get everything without having to invest anything WHILE being able to put up a fight against larger investments

I disagree with the comparison, i would rather say volks are good intermediate squads and are avalible very early in the game, but they cant beat more expensive squads, they do not punch over their weight, they come before beefier troops hit the battlefield.
The only issue i see with that design its what everyone here can agree with, it is volks blobs, because with great numbers they diminish their lack of the best firepower nor map control.
Still I dont consider them to be OP, maybe annoying AF but definitely not OP

like other factions ? what ? did they steal the frag and molotov ? or cons sand bags ? other factions have equivalents abilities

Only Cons have sandbag native but they don't have stock upgrades, everything else had to be paid to unlock. We're talking about cumulative tools that make them super strong for a cheap price. Now I know they need that vs Soviet Penal start, we can't really nerf volks and not touching penal or nerfing penal and not touching volks.

My suggestion for VG would be:

1) Replace Flame-grenade with normal grenade...
Reason: Mainline infantry should not have easy access to anti-cover/anti-garrison tools.

I agree with that reason, specially the side tech or package upgrade. Now normal grenade on volks + mp40 or STG44 its a lot of rush potential. Now flamenade denies that land even for volks.

3) Redesign the ST44 upgrade. ST44 upgrade now requires 2 truck set up and give 5 ST44 on semi auto mod. The performance is similar to "carbine" semi auto rifle. They have a timed ability allowing them to use full auto with a performance similar to PG ST44.
Reason: The ST44 if closer to real performance and easier for player to understand the use of it. In addition the unit can now support long range units like Obers or non upgraded VG from being overrun by allied infantry. Making the increased performance a timed one will prevent blobing.

If you delay too much stgs volks will end up loosing mid and lategame, or in other words useless after early game ends. As they are now, they win early and blob midgame, the latter being the main problem. Delaying too much sounds too harsh since obers take too much time to land the battlefield. The timed ability sounds good, that way they demand more micro and less oportunity to blob them.

I agree with that reason, specially the side tech or package upgrade. Now normal grenade on volks + mp40 or STG44 its a lot of rush potential. Now flamenade denies that land even for volks.

If you delay too much stgs volks will end up loosing mid and lategame, or in other words useless after early game ends. As they are now, they win early and blob midgame, the latter being the main problem. Delaying too much sounds too harsh since obers take too much time to land the battlefield. The timed ability sounds good, that way they demand more micro and less oportunity to blob them.

It will need testing but VG should be able to trade off good at long range and use the explosive grenades to delay enemy rushes.

Once the VG are toned down one could start toning down or redesigning other OP units like Penal/Guards.

Having strong lethal units in the early game takes out too much out of infantry play that should be more about tactics and relative positioning. It also makes CQC units far less effective.