lets talk about panzerfusiller

I Really like idea of double AT rifle with snare. Some other way to fend off light vehicles than just rakettenwerfer

or give rakten a snare shot. and give it better survivablity

Make up your god damm minds, you either want something balanced gameplay wise or you want something historicall authentic.

So Vipper I don't see a problem in them getting a 2 AT rifle package that is explained why because late war dwindling resources.

I don't know, figure it out amongst yourselves.

AT rifles are fine. They didn't stop using things just because new things were invented. Okw has the mg42 despite being an end war faction and OST has the 42 while being the early war faction. If an AT rifle fits the balance that's fine. A Shrek will NOT be balanced as we have already seen... Although I don't think a simple snare will cut it if they have AT rifles as getting pushed around is always an option.... Although okw always has access to an AT gun so who knows.

AT rifles are fine. They didn't stop using things just because new things were invented. Okw has the mg42 despite being an end war faction and OST has the 42 while being the early war faction. If an AT rifle fits the balance that's fine. A Shrek will NOT be balanced as we have already seen... Although I don't think a simple snare will cut it if they have AT rifles as getting pushed around is always an option.... Although okw always has access to an AT gun so who knows.

I suppose you mean MG34 here?

Its extremely easy to explain that - MG42 was completely unsuitable for certain situations, like tank MGs due to its rate of fire and therefore ammo consumption.

MG34 was also tad more reliable then 42.

However with the manufacturing of panzerfaust there was literally no reason to ever use AT rifle ever again.

I don't care for it really, but it does make very little sense for OKW to have it when they had more panzerfausts then people to carry them.

Shrecks are completely out of question, that's a fact.

Its extremely easy to explain that - MG42 was completely unsuitable for certain situations, like tank MGs due to its rate of fire and therefore ammo consumption.

The biggest reason was rather that the MG 42 barrel couldn't be changed from inside a tank, because it needs to be taken out sort of sideways. The MG 34's barrel is changed by folding the back part of the gun.

Yeah adding more panzershreks into the game?

Its a no from me dawg. We should have all learnt our lesson from the volkshrek blob days.

Yeah adding more panzershreks into the game?

Its a no from me dawg. We should have all learnt our lesson from the volkshrek blob days.

why not make schrecka copy from zoooks. and let them get access to all axis infantery? like allies can? sounds fair and will not be op ....we see it every day on allie infantery.

why not make schrecka copy from zoooks. and let them get access to all axis infantery? like allies can? sounds fair and will not be op ....we see it every day on allie infantery.

How's all these replays and casts of USF using zook bus are coming up?
Still looking for them or still can't give another example over the single clip stuve did, yet you stubbornly claim is meta?

And sure, if you are up to decrease efficiency of your infantry weapons by 50% while keeping the cost the same(as shrecks cost same as zooks now), sure, go for it.

Now, which you'd like to go with the package?
Dual LMGs of crappy performance or LMG limit to 1 and still lower performance of current lmg42 while keeping higher cost?

Will all allied also get stock 280 armor T4 med and 180-234 armor T3 med too?

Can you stop making ass pulls while ignoring literally whole faction design and the difference of targets just to regurgitate your agendas our way?

Generally, pfussies are fine. They most certainly do not lack any AT upgrade nor should they ever get it, they already are loaded with all the utility like nades, fausts, flares, increased sight, permasprint at vet5.

If you want to use heavy infantry play, pfussies are the go to unit.
Why people think they lack anything is beyond me.
They go well against all allied infantries, flares and sight range assure you always have good scouting and won't be surprised by anything that isn't exploiting LOS blockers to its advantage, are good at all ranges and scale really well.

The only "bad" thing about using them is you should get kubel and/or MG34 after 2nd volk instead of bashing your forehead against V button to HQ.

Cam you stop ignoring the fact that its 50% weaker AT weapons going against much highly armored units?

If you don't understand why volks lost shrecks, its all we need to know about your (lack of)understanding of balance.

volks lost sherck cause thye were cheap and still had ai thanks to the buff they gotten when brits came out, no one was complaning when they had no ai

cheap? arent pios from ukf ans asf arent cheap? and volks had only 1 schreck. ukf and usf can give to ALL of their infntery TWO handheld AT!

or mix them up with lmg...blobb this....and u get a much better volkblobb

Would 100% rather rework them as alternative high cost high scaling 5 men mainline with 2 g43 and grenade assault.

4 men squads should take panzershrecks

+1

cheap? arent pios from ukf ans asf arent cheap? and volks had only 1 schreck. ukf and usf can give to ALL of their infntery TWO handheld AT!

or mix them up with lmg...blobb this....and u get a much better volkblobb

You’re comparing a 6 man squad with 2 g43s, grenades, flares, and an at nade to literally engineers. Nice.

Before adding such improvements to OKW I would rather like to see the problematic (overperforming) OKW units and abilites being looked at first, mainly JP4, Stuka and Spec Ops recon flares.



If mines, FAUSTS and raketenwerfers arent enough options for you to hold off allied vehicles until JP4 or -depending on the map- panther is on the field, then you really just need to l2p

I had a good laugh this morning, please explain how the JP4 is anything but the worst TD in the game, I would rather have 2 Stugs, and SU85 or Jackson.

I had a good laugh this morning, please explain how the JP4 is anything but the worst TD in the game, I would rather have 2 Stugs, and SU85 or Jackson.

I could explain it to you but for this I would actually have to know if the person I am talking to is any decent in this game and doesnt have 3 APM potato micro.

Cuz you know, there actually are people who suck at videogames. People who micro and use a JP4 in the exact same way like a T34 or a Jackson, wondering why it doesnt go well.

Oh, and to answer your comparison with SU85 already: You might take a brief look at the unit stats. JP4 has better rate of fire, better armor, same range, better veterancy (it doesnt need a penetration bonus since it has 100% or close to 100% penetration chance on most of allied vehicles), and vet 1 literally allows this unit to go invisible anytime

Well, JP4 is not top tier TD of OKW

It is

why not make schrecka copy from zoooks. and let them get access to all axis infantery? like allies can? sounds fair and will not be op ....we see it every day on allie infantery.

If we gave the axis a bazooka copy (including bazooka stats side tech etc) then despite the fact you could give it to any infantry it would still be a heavy nerf, although not as ineffective as it would generally be used against weaker armour units.

Also, most browsers have a spellcheck function. Which you may want to utilise to help put your points across in a more legitimate manner.

You’re comparing a 6 man squad with 2 g43s, grenades, flares, and an at nade to literally engineers. Nice.

Pfussies get 3 G43s.

It is

If we pretend to ignore panther, which is specifically designed to counter high armor targets that is.
Just because its not called TD in the sense other TDs are, due to its ability to effectively engage infantry, doesn't mean its not top tier vehicle designed primarly to counter other vehicles with high armor specifically.

Pfussies get 3 G43s.

Oh well even better. Definitely comparable to royal engies lol.

+1


You’re comparing a 6 man squad with 2 g43s, grenades, flares, and an at nade to literally engineers. Nice.

it would be better you read all what i wrote. Or try to understand what i wrote.

the suggestion was to give 1 schreck back to volks and make the schreck a stat copy from zook. You cant tell me this would be op. If volks with one single zook would be op....what are the other blobbs from ukf, usf and sov than? MEGA omega Lul OP.

As said before, changes to pfussies were discussed. For various reasons, they did not go through (well to begin with, the decision was to not switch them in for Elite Armor's signal relay; this would have given us the scope to alter them).

Regardless, the take aways from these conversations were that:

-Schrecks and AT rifles (or any other weird AT options you could come up with) would not work - sturms already have schrecks and AT rifles are pretty weak in general (notice how the only faction that has them is the only faction with no other access to handheld AT).

-Whatever the changes were, they had to try as hard as possible to avoid making OKW's early game stronger - this is for obvious reasons.

And, honestly, that kind of eliminates most suggestions here.

For whoever is wondering, the final proposed change to pfusis (if I recall correctly) were that they would be buildable from t0 at 0 cp, cost 280 (? I think), start at 5 men and earn their 6th with vet, and have their g43s + snares + nades locked behind their first tech structure (just like volks stgs + panzerfausts). I really don't think pfusis in this weird repair/utility role would work - OKW doesn't exactly lack in the repair department, and Breakthrough doctrine even already has a capping ability. Having them in an AT role was already addressed previously in my post, but I should also note that we were cautious about anything that could bring back something akin to old volks blobbing. To actually explain the changes, pfusis are a mainline replacement infantry that comes too late to actually replace the mainline. The changes aimed to give OKW, a faction with an oppressive early game and mainline infantry that falls off late game, the option to trade their early game power for mainline infantry that could actually scale really well into the late game, and the changes probably actually work to that end.

A final note for the actually productive contributors to this thread:

Always think of ways your suggestions could go wrong (dont make an abusable unit).

Try to avoid ideas that sound super cool in theory, but have no real use in practice. Not everything has to be meta/top tier/competitively viable, but there should at least be a case or situation where the player feels compelled to get this unit. (Seriously, you don't realize how many ideas sounded great until someone rightfully threw out the word "overlap")

Avoid unnecessarily complex changes. We all know how coh2 plays and feels, so suggestions should stay along the lines of this feel. We ALSO know how little clarity coh2 has behind its mechanics and weapons, try not to reduce the already small amount of clarity and uniformity coh2 has behind its systems (for example, panzerfausts and AT nades are snares).

Thank you to all of you who contribute your ideas, especially those of you who do so with open minds. As a member of this community, I appreciate it when there are earnest attempts to better the game.