I think panzerfusiller need some change
The role of panzerfusiller was doing mainline unit but nowadays Volk is more fast to use and cheap and enough strong
so i suggest changing the role of panzerfusiller to Anti-tank specialist unit
before : 2cp, 290/24, 6-man, 6 kar 98k(dmg 10), can upgrede 3 g43 rifle(90muni, increase sight) , grenade, AT rifle grenade, kar 98k(dmg 10), flare
after : 1cp, 280/26 5-man, 1 g43 4 kar 98k(dmg 12), can upgrade 2 panzer shrek(120muni), can build teller mine, flare
How about u guys think?
lets talk about panzerfusiller
17 Oct 2018, 08:04 AM
#1
Posts: 810
17 Oct 2018, 08:30 AM
#2
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
That´s actually a decent idea. Current Panzerfüsiliere are very awkward because they come too late to be mainline infantry and aren´t elite infantry. The only role they have is really to replace wiped Volks in mid-late game.
It would be interesting to have them as an AT specialist.
It would be interesting to have them as an AT specialist.
17 Oct 2018, 08:31 AM
#3
Posts: 1660
5 men Panzershrek squad ?
17 Oct 2018, 08:34 AM
#4
Posts: 1355
17 Oct 2018, 08:39 AM
#5
Posts: 1660
Aren't they 6 men?
OP wants to change to 5 men
17 Oct 2018, 08:58 AM
#6
Posts: 1355
OP wants to change to 5 men
Thanks, i missed that.
17 Oct 2018, 09:03 AM
#7
Posts: 1660
Would 100% rather rework them as alternative high cost high scaling 5 men mainline with 2 g43 and grenade assault.
4 men squads should take panzershrecks
4 men squads should take panzershrecks
17 Oct 2018, 09:10 AM
#8
Posts: 632 | Subs: 1
280MP is too cheap for a unit that can get double Schrecks. I'd rather see them with two PzB39 AT rifles and a Panzerwurfmine AT grenade (using the Soviet RPG-6 model).
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17 Oct 2018, 09:12 AM
#9
Posts: 104
panzerfusilers in their current state serve their purpose as light recon infantry that can be upgraded for penal like fighting style. The only thing i d like to see changed for them is making them a doctrinal base infantry or a 1cp call in. otherwise they come in so late.
17 Oct 2018, 09:21 AM
#10
Posts: 2243
why not on a 5model squad which cost 280-300mp? remember: mostly all allie faction can get much cheaper double handheld infantery...mostly nondoc!
and schrecks only fearable when in near and midrange...on far range they hit nearly nothing and axis have only access to schrecks on expansive 4model squads...
i didnt understand why schrecks was removed from volks insteadt nerv their dmg/ effective.
every faction should have access to good / effective handheld at.
dont come with st pios...upgrading them with schrecks is a shoot in the own knee in most cases
and schrecks only fearable when in near and midrange...on far range they hit nearly nothing and axis have only access to schrecks on expansive 4model squads...
i didnt understand why schrecks was removed from volks insteadt nerv their dmg/ effective.
every faction should have access to good / effective handheld at.
dont come with st pios...upgrading them with schrecks is a shoot in the own knee in most cases
17 Oct 2018, 09:48 AM
#11
Posts: 5279
i think the problem with fussies is that there is no longer really roles for infantry. i mean there is but there isnt... you go solely for cost efficiency and volks have that in droves. skirmish infantry, chaff infantry, heavy infantry... it doesnt matter. what matters is how much firepower you can throw out for cost.
i think utility needs to be explored. fussies could cap faster for example and axe the ability for something better. recon, long range firepower and fast cap would give them a role that doesnt have to jostle with volks for a job. similarily guards as is are an incredibly potent force, reducing their cap rate for example would enforce them as fighters but promote other units in the BO to grab map control. add some diversity for Christs sake. not everything has to be a dps fix....
i think utility needs to be explored. fussies could cap faster for example and axe the ability for something better. recon, long range firepower and fast cap would give them a role that doesnt have to jostle with volks for a job. similarily guards as is are an incredibly potent force, reducing their cap rate for example would enforce them as fighters but promote other units in the BO to grab map control. add some diversity for Christs sake. not everything has to be a dps fix....
#stalinwept
17 Oct 2018, 10:13 AM
#12
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
Before adding such improvements to OKW I would rather like to see the problematic (overperforming) OKW units and abilites being looked at first, mainly JP4, Stuka and Spec Ops recon flares.
If mines, FAUSTS and raketenwerfers arent enough options for you to hold off allied vehicles until JP4 or -depending on the map- panther is on the field, then you really just need to l2p
why not on a 5model squad which cost 280-300mp? remember: mostly all allie faction can get much cheaper double handheld infantery...mostly nondoc!
and schrecks only fearable when in near and midrange...on far range they hit nearly nothing and axis have only access to schrecks on expansive 4model squads...
i didnt understand why schrecks was removed from volks insteadt nerv their dmg/ effective.
every faction should have access to good / effective handheld at.
dont come with st pios...upgrading them with schrecks is a shoot in the own knee in most cases
If mines, FAUSTS and raketenwerfers arent enough options for you to hold off allied vehicles until JP4 or -depending on the map- panther is on the field, then you really just need to l2p
17 Oct 2018, 10:24 AM
#13
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
why not on a 5model squad which cost 280-300mp? remember: mostly all allie faction can get much cheaper double handheld infantery...mostly nondoc!
and schrecks only fearable when in near and midrange...on far range they hit nearly nothing and axis have only access to schrecks on expansive 4model squads...
i didnt understand why schrecks was removed from volks insteadt nerv their dmg/ effective.
every faction should have access to good / effective handheld at.
dont come with st pios...upgrading them with schrecks is a shoot in the own knee in most cases
Cam you stop ignoring the fact that its 50% weaker AT weapons going against much highly armored units?
If you don't understand why volks lost shrecks, its all we need to know about your (lack of)understanding of balance.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Oct 2018, 10:45 AM
#14
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I would advocate to keep the squad the same as it is now, but:
This way Panzerfusiliers would serve a similar role as Penals do to Cons: being a more expensive squad with different utility. If needed, cost and performance could be rebalanced to match such a role.
The main difference in utility would be that Panzerfusiliers come with the HEAT grenade but need tech for AI grenade, while Volks have AI grenade but need tech for Panzerfaust. Then Panzerfusiliers would be the choice when enemy light vehicle rushes (UC, Clown Car, Dodge) are suspected. Volksgrenadiers would be the better choice for HMG/garrison fights.
This would offer players a strategic choice as well as making the Panzerfusiliers much less akward to use because they could replace the standard Volksgrenadiers build.
- Move the CP requirement down to 0CP
- Buildable in HQ truck
- Lock Model 24 grenade behind truck tech
This way Panzerfusiliers would serve a similar role as Penals do to Cons: being a more expensive squad with different utility. If needed, cost and performance could be rebalanced to match such a role.
The main difference in utility would be that Panzerfusiliers come with the HEAT grenade but need tech for AI grenade, while Volks have AI grenade but need tech for Panzerfaust. Then Panzerfusiliers would be the choice when enemy light vehicle rushes (UC, Clown Car, Dodge) are suspected. Volksgrenadiers would be the better choice for HMG/garrison fights.
This would offer players a strategic choice as well as making the Panzerfusiliers much less akward to use because they could replace the standard Volksgrenadiers build.
17 Oct 2018, 11:00 AM
#15
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Cam you stop ignoring the fact that its 50% weaker AT weapons going against much highly armored units?
...
I am not sure where the 50% weaker AT claim from but it seems inaccurate.
50% less damage does not translate in 50% weaker AT weapons.
When it come to AT "rockets":
Bazookas are cheaper, more accurate, have lower reload time, they do deflection damage and available to all infantry. They also do 80 which is 67% of damage not 50%.
Piats are cheaper, have lower reload time, they do deflection damage and available to all infantry and actually do 100 damage which is 83% of damage not 50%.
17 Oct 2018, 11:11 AM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I am not sure where the 50% weaker AT claim from but it seems inaccurate.
50% less damage does not translate in 50% weaker AT weapons.
When it come to AT "rockets":
Bazookas are cheaper, more accurate, have lower reload time, they do deflection damage and available to all infantry. They also do 80 which is 67% of damage not 50%.
Piats are cheaper, have lower reload time, they do deflection damage and available to all infantry and actually do 100 damage which is 83% of damage not 50%.
All handheld AT weapons do deflection damage, I don't see why you see the need to name just specifically these two as if it was some kind of unique benefit to them.
Its not only damage that is 50% lower, its penetration as well, especially in context of armor difference.
Reload and accuracy only partly make up for that.
Point still stands, shreck is a superior weapon and it shouldn't be on squad with superior durability.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Oct 2018, 11:16 AM
#17
Posts: 264
Similiar to how HMG's should all be 4 man (god dammit make the maxim good, drop 6 to 4) but anti tank squads could be lower to 4 man as well. Also, Panzerfusilier.. awkward? not as good as Volks? They are monsters, they deal more DPS than volks and also come with real nades and flares.
I'm down for changing them to a new role because I HATE fighting giant blobs of them because of how effective it can be. But awkward isn't how I would describe them. Awkward would be Obers to me....
I would +1 to the idea of giving them a SINGLE shreck if they remained 5-6 man. But double shreck has to be 4 man only as the durability is too crazy. Sure, USF can throw double zook or IS double Piat but as mentioned above it's different as not only do the weapon profiles differ but the armor you face is different (worse generally).
I'm down for changing them to a new role because I HATE fighting giant blobs of them because of how effective it can be. But awkward isn't how I would describe them. Awkward would be Obers to me....
I would +1 to the idea of giving them a SINGLE shreck if they remained 5-6 man. But double shreck has to be 4 man only as the durability is too crazy. Sure, USF can throw double zook or IS double Piat but as mentioned above it's different as not only do the weapon profiles differ but the armor you face is different (worse generally).
Axis biased, Allied biased. Play every faction before you scream nerf, be a Coh2 player not an "Axis" or "Allied" player.
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17 Oct 2018, 11:30 AM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
All handheld AT weapons do deflection damage, I don't see why you see the need to name just specifically these two as if it was some kind of unique benefit to them.
Its not only damage that is 50% lower, its penetration as well, especially in context of armor difference.
Reload and accuracy only partly make up for that.
Point still stands, shreck is a superior weapon and it shouldn't be on squad with superior durability.
I did not present as "unique benefit" but allied weapons benefit more from it.
Deflection damage reduces the benefits of high armor since it will cause damage if it hits. Deflection damage on shrecks hardly ever kicks in since they will usually penetrate allied mediums.
The damage is simply not lower by 50%.
When you use actual numbers you create the impression that it is based on stats while you have little to support a theory that allied weapons are "50% weaker AT weapons". Allied AT weapons have different power levels thus the claim is wrong and it also misleading.
P.Fusiliers (especially 5 men as suggested) do not have superior durability to allied infantry with access to hand held AT weapons.
17 Oct 2018, 12:37 PM
#19
Posts: 104
I would advocate to keep the squad the same as it is now, but:
- Move the CP requirement down to 0CP
- Buildable in HQ truck
- Lock Model 24 grenade behind truck tech
This way Panzerfusiliers would serve a similar role as Penals do to Cons: being a more expensive squad with different utility. If needed, cost and performance could be rebalanced to match such a role.
The main difference in utility would be that Panzerfusiliers come with the HEAT grenade but need tech for AI grenade, while Volks have AI grenade but need tech for Panzerfaust. Then Panzerfusiliers would be the choice when enemy light vehicle rushes (UC, Clown Car, Dodge) are suspected. Volksgrenadiers would be the better choice for HMG/garrison fights.
This would offer players a strategic choice as well as making the Panzerfusiliers much less akward to use because they could replace the standard Volksgrenadiers build.
I approve.
17 Oct 2018, 12:38 PM
#20
Posts: 2243
If mines, FAUSTS and raketenwerfers arent enough options for you to hold off allied vehicles until JP4 or -depending on the map- panther is on the field, then you really just need to l2p
than tell me big master of coh...why in the hell have USF, UKF and sov the possibitly toget easy handheld AT? they have this or similiar options to.
jp4? hell a jackson is much much muuuuch better in every way.
do u realize that brits get snares too now? on a cheap unit which can even equipt with double piats? or cheap pios from usf with double zooks AND minesweeper in a clowncar, which is fast like plane, make dmg vs armor like a KT and cost nothing seroius fuel? can hit by mines, can aimed by at guns (to fast) ...
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