Do volks need some nerf? If so, how?

GCS2 stats only show OST players did better...

U mean OST and OKW have that ridiculous WR because they are better players?

all games i watched showed one thing:

not one faction rolfstomp the other in the ground so we could say its OP.
mostly games took a while to win..there was no game where you could see: the player makes no failure ...but had no chance to win.

the most wins was based on failes trough the game...false decisions and less micro.

there is no way a match where we could see that one faction has so much needs of a buff or a nerf.

proof me wrong!

Regarding USF I'd personally make Riflemen 10-20MP cheaper and add those (based on standard 3x Riflemen strats) spare 30-60MP to the BAR tech. This way USF can field infantry as fast as OKW can in the early game, while their scaling costs/timing remains the same as it is now.

Infantry Sections I'm not sure, I'd probably agree they're fine early on. I'm not even sure IS are really the problem for UKF. It might be worth experimenting with only one Bren slot and add a moving accuracy bonus to the Bolster tech (bringing it up to standard) so they can actually properly attack stuff.

Reducing Riflemen cost isn't going to change anything. There are two issues on OKW-USF matchup


-OKW start with 100 Manpower more to mitigate the truck cost added recently. But this 100 Manpower is actually used to build a 4th volks squad early game.
-USF Gameplay is balanced around strong Riflemen but capped at 3+Lt or 4+Capt. Whenever it is the 4th riflemen or the lieutenant, the squad hit the field much later than the 4th volks squad.

If you look at both at the same time, the problem is quite evident and not to forget that additionaly:
OKW start with a Sturmpio and USF a RE squad.
OKW Volks can build sandbag while Riflemen can't
Once first truck is call-in, volks Access flamnades

So reducing riflemen cost isn't going to change anything, you can't build more of them or bleed like a stuffed pig. So what for, an early mortar? isn't going to counter OKW non-static play, Volks can build another sandbag if you target the first one.
Elchino7 already gave the best solution here: removing this 100 Manpower for OKW and reducing the truck cost so the OKW player can't build the 4th volks in a raw.
In addition, putting sandbag behind vet1 would also do great for the balance.


Soviet could also use of a nerf for their penals, removing some of their initial stat and putting them behind vet1

Ostheer is already going to be nerfed with the doctrinal changes to mobile defense. I don't think that Stock Ostheer is superior to Stock USF, it has always been a doctrinal issue since they forget to apply all doctrinal nerfs to Mobile defense last year.

all games i watched showed one thing:

not one faction rolfstomp the other in the ground so we could say its OP.
mostly games took a while to win..there was no game where you could see: the player makes no failure ...but had no chance to win.

the most wins was based on failes trough the game...false decisions and less micro.

there is no way a match where we could see that one faction has so much needs of a buff or a nerf.

proof me wrong!

Looks at UKF.... wrong already bucko

Reducing Riflemen cost isn't going to change anything. There are two issues on OKW-USF matchup

But how exactly would changing OKW help in USF vs OST matchup? OST's winrate vs USF is also 61% (GCS2). Only OST changes are for Puma which isn't really involved against USF anyway.

Riflemen are better en-masse and being able to field them quicker would probably give them a fair chance to fight with less casualties to be able to stand up to that fourth Volks squad. They would have an easier time overwelming the MG-42 early on. It might even help to mitigate the SP's influence.


Again, the statistics show that the Soviets, OKW and Ostheer are the most balanced factions and that it's both UKF and USF that need to be brought up to par. I don't understand why you would want to start changing things about the German factions and risk screwing up the balance with the Soviets.

Reducing Riflemen cost isn't going to change anything. There are two issues on OKW-USF matchup


-OKW start with 100 Manpower more to mitigate the truck cost added recently. But this 100 Manpower is actually used to build a 4th volks squad early game.
-USF Gameplay is balanced around strong Riflemen but capped at 3+Lt or 4+Capt. Whenever it is the 4th riflemen or the lieutenant, the squad hit the field much later than the 4th volks squad.

If you look at both at the same time, the problem is quite evident and not to forget that additionaly:
OKW start with a Sturmpio and USF a RE squad.
OKW Volks can build sandbag while Riflemen can't
Once first truck is call-in, volks Access flamnades

So reducing riflemen cost isn't going to change anything, you can't build more of them or bleed like a stuffed pig. So what for, an early mortar? isn't going to counter OKW non-static play, Volks can build another sandbag if you target the first one.
Elchino7 already gave the best solution here: removing this 100 Manpower for OKW and reducing the truck cost so the OKW player can't build the 4th volks in a raw.
In addition, putting sandbag behind vet1 would also do great for the balance.


Soviet could also use of a nerf for their penals, removing some of their initial stat and putting them behind vet1

Ostheer is already going to be nerfed with the doctrinal changes to mobile defense. I don't think that Stock Ostheer is superior to Stock USF, it has always been a doctrinal issue since they forget to apply all doctrinal nerfs to Mobile defense last year.

Nerfing penals will break okw-sov balance... nerfing volks will break sov-okw balance... the best solution is simply to buff riflemen and IS and retain the fairly good balance between OST OKW and SOV by not nerfing any of their core units...

I think, as others have mentioned above, the real problem is USF/UKF balance issues rather than OKW/Ost issues.

Hopefully this will be changed with the coming patch to an extent.

I agree on that. SOV-OST-OKW is in a decent spot. Buffing up USF and UKF is a better solution than messing with the three factions that work right now.

Reducing Riflemen cost isn't going to change anything. There are two issues on OKW-USF matchup


-OKW start with 100 Manpower more to mitigate the truck cost added recently. But this 100 Manpower is actually used to build a 4th volks squad early game.
-USF Gameplay is balanced around strong Riflemen but capped at 3+Lt or 4+Capt. Whenever it is the 4th riflemen or the lieutenant, the squad hit the field much later than the 4th volks squad.

If you look at both at the same time, the problem is quite evident and not to forget that additionaly:
OKW start with a Sturmpio and USF a RE squad.
OKW Volks can build sandbag while Riflemen can't
Once first truck is call-in, volks Access flamnades

So reducing riflemen cost isn't going to change anything, you can't build more of them or bleed like a stuffed pig. So what for, an early mortar? isn't going to counter OKW non-static play, Volks can build another sandbag if you target the first one.
Elchino7 already gave the best solution here: removing this 100 Manpower for OKW and reducing the truck cost so the OKW player can't build the 4th volks in a raw.
In addition, putting sandbag behind vet1 would also do great for the balance.


Soviet could also use of a nerf for their penals, removing some of their initial stat and putting them behind vet1

Ostheer is already going to be nerfed with the doctrinal changes to mobile defense. I don't think that Stock Ostheer is superior to Stock USF, it has always been a doctrinal issue since they forget to apply all doctrinal nerfs to Mobile defense last year.

>Nerfing penals

So OKW can stomp Soviets even more now while the only thing holding soviets afloat is t1 cheese and penals, lmao

But how exactly would changing OKW help in USF vs OST matchup? OST's winrate vs USF is also 61% (GCS2). Only OST changes are for Puma which isn't really involved against USF anyway.

Riflemen are better en-masse and being able to field them quicker would probably give them a fair chance to fight with less casualties to be able to stand up to that fourth Volks squad. They would have an easier time overwelming the MG-42 early on. It might even help to mitigate the SP's influence.


Again, the statistics show that the Soviets, OKW and Ostheer are the most balanced factions and that it's both UKF and USF that need to be brought up to par. I don't understand why you would want to start changing things about the German factions and risk screwing up the balance with the Soviets.

Well if you think that it is USF that need to be readjusted with buffs, I'm not necessarily against it but reducing riflemen manpower cost isn't going to do it.
And you have to be very carefull if you want to buff their raw stats. Some people also mentioned the volley fire ability but I can't agree on having early engagement depending on abilities, we moved the flamenade on truck call-in for a reason...

About Ostheer: I haven't watch all GCS2 games but Ostheer wins were strongly depending on their Doctrinal choices. Removing the panic Puma itself is going to make their early game transition into late game much harder without pak or shreck. Helpinghans who played very well Ostheer also had a strong dependency on his doctrinal choice.
This is why, in my opinion Ostheer case is more about adjusting their doctrinal options than the faction itself. The only point were we could agree on is the 251 flamer that is probably too strong the moment it hits the field, other than that I can't see anything else overperforming at any stage of the game on their stock roster.

Soviet dominates because Penal are strong, of course if OKW early game has to be tone down a bit, Soviet early game should also be considerated to follow the same way. Could it beneficie a lot to Ostheer, I don't think so but that's my personal opinion.

Looks at UKF.... wrong already bucko

in which game was UKF rolfstomp? pls link it.

in which game was UKF rolfstomp? pls link it.

It'd be better for UKF if it was roflstomped, because that'd mean someone picked it in the first place.

It'd be better for UKF if it was roflstomped, because that'd mean someone picked it in the first place.

I'd rather have a blanket UKF buff, than breaking OST or OKW with nerfs. Volks need their Vet1 looked at and slightly reshuffled tho.

Buffing the DPS of unit to solves balance issues is a step in the wrong direction. High DPS means that fight last less and the impact and the importance of tactics reduces.

If Ostheer/OKW remain stronger than UKF/USF after the revamp patch then Ostheer/OKW/Soviet should all be nerfed to find middle ground.

Actually balance would be allot easier if Ostheer become once more the benchmark to will all other factions where measured.

in which game was UKF rolfstomp? pls link it.

You do realize that faction doesn't need to be stomped to be underpowered?
Lose ratio for them screams they need buffs at later stages of the game as well.
Unless you believe players suddenly forgot how to play when UKF pick was made and magically regained all of their skills when they played OKW/ost.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if faction got 30% win rate, its underpowered.
But that's exactly what happens when you take away all factions gimmicks and crutches holding the faction together while providing nothing at all to compensate.

If Ostheer/OKW remain stronger than UKF/USF after the revamp patch then Ostheer/OKW/Soviet should all be nerfed to find middle ground.

Actually balance would be allot easier if Ostheer become once more the benchmark to will all other factions where measured.

You want OST to be the benchmark but propose to nerf OST in the same post? I think the current OKW/SOV/OST balance should be the benchmark as it's inherently easier to buff two factions than to nerf three.

You want OST to be the benchmark but propose to nerf OST in the same post? I think the current OKW/SOV/OST balance should be the benchmark as it's inherently easier to buff two factions than to nerf three.

I clearly said if ostheer prove to be superior after the revamp patch and that faction should meet halfway. The reason I am saying that is that units have been buffed continuously and soon there will be little time for superior tactics to have a real affect on fights.

The benchmark need to be 1 faction not three, it becomes way too complicated if ones attempts to use more than 1 faction as the benchmark. Ostheer used to be benchmark and it makes sense to become the benchmark once more, in addition they are the best design faction that requires the use of different units.

If I had to touch the Ostheer I would start with better redesign of commanders, by removing OP combinations of abilities.

But that is all my personal opinion.

You do realize that faction doesn't need to be stomped to be underpowered?
Lose ratio for them screams they need buffs at later stages of the game as well.
Unless you believe players suddenly forgot how to play when UKF pick was made and magically regained all of their skills when they played OKW/ost.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if faction got 30% win rate, its underpowered.
But that's exactly what happens when you take away all factions gimmicks and crutches holding the faction together while providing nothing at all to compensate.

do u mean the 10 games would have a relvant statistik impact? maybe the player was better trained with other factions? maybe there was no luck from RNG on their side??

you can loose 10games...but the next 90 games u win. When you stop count after the first 10 games..yeah...you are rigth..the need buffs. but if u would look on a relevanz game number,..you would see: they are ok.

but ..maybe u troll around like every post.

do u mean the 10 games would have a relvant statistik impact? maybe the player was better trained with other factions? maybe there was no luck from RNG on their side??

you can loose 10games...but the next 90 games u win. When you stop count after the first 10 games..yeah...you are rigth..the need buffs. but if u would look on a relevanz game number,..you would see: they are ok.

but ..maybe u troll around like every post.

Please enlighten us then, why we have never seen these winning UKF 90 games you talk about during CGS?

The benchmark need to be 1 faction not three, it becomes way too complicated if ones attempts to use more than 1 faction as the benchmark. Ostheer used to be benchmark and it makes sense to become the benchmark once more, in addition they are the best design faction that requires the use of different units

Yes obviously I agree, I meant that OST in its current state can already be the benchmark because two other factions seem to be accordingly balanced around it right now. So the trio of them is ultimately the current benchmark, or middle ground as a better term. UKF and USF need to brought up to this standard. This doesn't necessarily mean that their units should be buffed as it appears that core faction issues (like USF tech and Brit lack of snares) seem to cause the biggest issues. I don't think many changes in the commander revamp will radically change the meta, but we'll have to wait for that.