@ Relic why was Tiger nerfed ????

PanzerJager, your name clearly shows which faction you play only

Based on your amazing thought defying logic, your name clearly shows your sexual orientation. Ugaybear kindly gtfo topics you can't comprehend.

Back on topic, the Tiger's armor was never an issue. It was easily outranged by su85's and being slow while being able to withstand a severe punishment it could still be killed without dealing too much damage.

I don't really judge this to be a nerf to the Tiger once you consider the trade off they get by gaining a greater acceleration/rate of fire. Time will tell anyway. What I am very curious to see is the chance of effectiveness of a t34 ram against Tiger tanks since its dependent on armour values. The faster acceleration will make it easier to dodge rams however.

To be honest I would not be making the expectation that a Tiger should beat a SU-85 head on. That is completely illogical. Yes, it costs more but your fielding the wrong tank for the job by getting a Tiger to beat SU-85 due to its lack of mobility. Mobility is the key to defeating SU-85's, not armour. If your using a Tiger to fight an SU-85 you have to get close and use true sight to your full advantage.

With heavy late game doctrinal tanks I don't even think you can make comparisons between the factions with the current patches. They all have different purposes and have distinct roles.
Tiger = Medium against tanks, Medium against infantry.
IS2 = Low against tanks, High against infantry.
Elephant = High against tanks, Low against infantry.
ISU-152 = Medium against tanks, High against infantry.

This is my basic rule of thumb with late game Ostheer tanks.
T3 Soviets = Tiger. If not available, make Panther or P4.
T4 Soviets = Elephant. If not available, make Panther or P4.

Just go for T-4 elefant, end to everything

WEHR FANBOYS MAD MVGAME

Don't like the changes to either IS2 or Tiger. Why not leave the armor alone?

IS2 needed a buff and got a BIG one .... now it can not only massacre infantry but can take on panthers 1 v 1.

But Tiger got a minor buff (reload) and a bigger nerf (armor/max speed) ....

Really RELIC ???? I know the official forums are full of russian trolls whining that their side cant roflstomp Germans but was it really necessary to buff one side's heavy tank and kinda nerf the other ?

Acceleration is far more important than max speed for heavy tanks. Before the patch you weren't chasing any armor and acceleration is good for dodging arty strikes, howitzer shells. Even ram if youre lucky. You know, the stuff that usually kills heavy tanks

Not really an opinion on the reduced armor yet. What about seeing how it plays out?

Also talking about russian trolls while defending the mg42 nerf doesn't make you look convincing

IS2 needed a buff and got a BIG one .... now it can not only massacre infantry but can take on panthers 1 v 1.

But Tiger got a minor buff (reload) and a bigger nerf (armor/max speed) ....

Really RELIC ???? I know the official forums are full of russian trolls whining that their side cant roflstomp Germans but was it really necessary to buff one side's heavy tank and kinda nerf the other ?

Tiger STILL does more DPS than an IS-2.

Heres a replay of a game I just played with usage of 2 Tigers, I feel I would have won the game with the higher armor pre-patch

http://www.coh2.org/replays/7921/new-tiger-can-t-stand-up-to-su85-or-is2/page/1#post_id74675

I still like the Tiger and never really thought anything was wrong with it.

Heres a replay of a game I just played with usage of 2 Tigers, I feel I would have won the game with the higher armor pre-patch

http://www.coh2.org/replays/7921/new-tiger-can-t-stand-up-to-su85-or-is2/page/1#post_id74675

Didn't expect to see this posted on here!

You lost that game because you were way too reckless with your armor. You lost your advantage when you charged that P4 too far and sent your ostwind around and got surrounded.

Then when your tiger came out you sent it around alone, all while I could see it with the watchtower and had plenty of time to prepare my at gun and su.

After you repaired it, I had my IS2 out and lured you into it with the SU. Then I was easily able to hunt it down after it was weak and unsupported.

Then your second one ran straight into a mine and my at gun and IS2 where able to damage it and force it off. Then my newly repaired and vet 2 SU flanked and took it out because you didn't have anything to protect it.

You didn't have enough support for your Tiger and you payed for it. I think it is a little unrealistic to believe that should beat a SU-85 and IS-2 without any support.

btw can we get more acceleration for the elefant as well ?!

btw can we get more acceleration for the elefant as well ?!

With its range that would be ridicilous. An Elefant is really hard to counter as it is now, since the Elefant is the counter to the only viable AT Russians have: SU85s. If Russians had something like schreks then I can see an Elefant needing some more acceleration but as it is now that would be extremely OP.

Well Tiger still own IS-2 head-on,so why cry,it's more balanced now...don't tell me you liked OP units,because I know you didn't ) (yeah right)

Don't forget that you should compare IS-2 to Tiger now as it should have been from the beginning and as it's historically accurate.
IS-2 buff was needed as the tank was not worth the cost.

As i predicted, the fuel decrease and manpower increase for the big cats is rubbish and for me actually a nerf. Late game you don´t care that much about fuel. It eventually ends in a manpower race.

Just sat there today with 240 fuel and 400mp and couldn´t get out a Panther. Tried saving more but then I had to reinforce my PG´s and ended up on 100mp again. Then the next infantry wave had to be reinforced. Ended with me losing the game as I never had 600 (it was 440 before) fricking mp for that Panther. Oh, game ended with me having 350 fuel.

With the old costs I would have just gotten out one Panther.

Revert the cost again or make it something in between (500mp/145 fuel)... It´s also strange that the Panther costs 130 fuel per vehicle just like a T-34/85. As of now the Panther is not worth 600mp.

You didn't have enough support for your Tiger and you payed for it. I think it is a little unrealistic to believe that should beat a SU-85 and IS-2 without any support.

I had the SU wounded from faust and ostwind/P4

As i predicted, the fuel decrease and manpower increase for the big cats is rubbish and for me actually a nerf. Late game you don´t care that much about fuel. It eventually ends in a manpower race.

Just sat there today with 240 fuel and 400mp and couldn´t get out a Panther. Tried saving more but then I had to reinforce my PG´s and ended up on 100mp again. Then the next infantry wave had to be reinforced. Ended with me losing the game as I never had 600 (it was 440 before) fricking mp for that Panther. Oh, game ended with me having 350 fuel.

With the old costs I would have just gotten out one Panther.

Revert the cost again or make it something in between (500mp/145 fuel)... It´s also strange that the Panther costs 130 fuel per vehicle just like a T-34/85. As of now the Panther is not worth 600mp.

sometimes its better to not reinforce and get the tank. you only need 20-40 to reinforce. and you can get that while the tiger builds so the tiger comes out as the pgreens get reinforced.

I don't consider this a nerf. The devs were even talking about it on their stream as a buff. I'm looking forward to trying it out in its current state.
Also, as someone who was a proponent of the T1-T2-Tiger BO/strat I have this to say: I never considered that BO to be particularly good. I started using it because of the general uselessness of Ostheer T3 and T4 given the Soviet metagame at the time: spam all the SU-85s! I'm glad for the other changes that seem to be making T3 better for both factions in 1v1, since the T1-T2-Tiger was pretty goddamn risky (and also reliant on the OPness of the MG42)

With its range that would be ridicilous. An Elefant is really hard to counter as it is now, since the Elefant is the counter to the only viable AT Russians have: SU85s. If Russians had something like schreks then I can see an Elefant needing some more acceleration but as it is now that would be extremely OP.

AT Guns and mass T34s are also very viable AT - it's not just the SU-85 anymore, especially after this patch.

The Elephant doesn't need any stats buffs - rather, it simply needs to be more polished, what with stupid vehicle AI targeting and wasting precious rounds (and reload time) on infantry, not to mention making it turn to face the completely wrong direction and taking days to turn back.