ok I get it IS2 needed a buff, but what logic did you think that this had to be done ...
Armor from 350 to 300
Max speed from 4.7 to 3.9
So in other words .... it got a pretty bad armor reduction and speed decrease. No upgrade to its dmg output like the IS2 or the range. So this makes getting it absolutely stupid since at least earlier it was able to soak up damage and act as a breakthrough tank.
@ Relic why was Tiger nerfed ????
10 Sep 2013, 18:11 PM
#1
Posts: 168
10 Sep 2013, 18:45 PM
#2
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
You gotta show all changes not just the nerfs
Reload from 6.25 to 5
Armor from 350 to 300
Acceleration from 1.25 to 1.8
Max speed from 4.7 to 3.9
Deceleration from 4.2 to 3.9
Price from 600 MP and 250 FU to 720 MP and 200 FU
Especially the reload reduction will increase the damage output significantly and the acceleration increase will also make it more responsive. And the fuel reduction makes it much more effortable.
I don't think it has been a plain nerf, but a good trade off in favor of the Tiger.
Reload from 6.25 to 5
Armor from 350 to 300
Acceleration from 1.25 to 1.8
Max speed from 4.7 to 3.9
Deceleration from 4.2 to 3.9
Price from 600 MP and 250 FU to 720 MP and 200 FU
Especially the reload reduction will increase the damage output significantly and the acceleration increase will also make it more responsive. And the fuel reduction makes it much more effortable.
I don't think it has been a plain nerf, but a good trade off in favor of the Tiger.
10 Sep 2013, 18:47 PM
#3
5 
Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
Acceleration buff will be very good for the Tiger I. Quicker reload is big too, and 50 less fuel.
10 Sep 2013, 18:48 PM
#4
4 Posts: 505
^ I agree. And that 50 reduction cost of fuel means it hits the field a bit earlier, meaning it's value as a shock unit also increases.
10 Sep 2013, 18:49 PM
#5
Posts: 148
I don't understand why it was nerfed in the ways it was. IS2 and Tiger both needed buffs. IS2 go the buffs and Tiger's acceleration is negated by slower speed and less armor.
Don't understand.
Don't understand.
10 Sep 2013, 18:49 PM
#6
Posts: 978
- Price from 600 MP and 250 FU to 720 MP and 200 FU
As a Tiger doc + T1 + T2 player this is a nerf for me. The manpower increase makes it less attractive and the fuel decrease doesn´t help me as I almost always float it by the time I reach 5 CPs.
Even slower Tiger with less range than the SU-85? How is that thing going to fight?
Probably going for more T3 Panzer IVs now instead of Tigers.
As a Tiger doc + T1 + T2 player this is a nerf for me. The manpower increase makes it less attractive and the fuel decrease doesn´t help me as I almost always float it by the time I reach 5 CPs.
Even slower Tiger with less range than the SU-85? How is that thing going to fight?
Probably going for more T3 Panzer IVs now instead of Tigers.
10 Sep 2013, 18:51 PM
#7
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
*whine* *whine*
How about you try it out before you cry?
How about you try it out before you cry?
10 Sep 2013, 18:54 PM
#8
Posts: 3293
*whine* *whine*
How about you try it out before you cry?
^
Failure is always an option. 
It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)
Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. 
To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! 
and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
10 Sep 2013, 19:01 PM
#9
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
I don't know what is Tiger penetration and damage but i think that reload speed is okay and those speed changes were unnecessary
10 Sep 2013, 19:02 PM
#10
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedIdgaf about Tiger.
Im concerned about those Gren Rifle changes. Whats up with that.
I thought Cons/Grens was supposed to be solid.
Im concerned about those Gren Rifle changes. Whats up with that.
I thought Cons/Grens was supposed to be solid.
10 Sep 2013, 19:35 PM
#11
Posts: 351
Idgaf about Tiger.
Im concerned about those Gren Rifle changes. Whats up with that.
I thought Cons/Grens was supposed to be solid.
I'm honestly kind of surprised that they didn't touch the Mosin Nagants at all... Conscript damage output feels so bad, especially as you transition into mid and late game. Perhaps that responsiveness change will make a difference though as they won't constantly be jumping around with every little thing. I do like the increased accuracy for grens at range though, guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.
P.s. When is this patch supposed to go live?
10 Sep 2013, 19:53 PM
#12
Posts: 978
So they are supposed to be used like Volksgrenadiers vs. Riflemen in Coh1? Keeping the range at maximum? Sry for the offtopic.
I do like the increased accuracy for grens at range though, guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.
10 Sep 2013, 20:26 PM
#13
Posts: 954
actually, let' do a math here:
Tiger health: 1280
Alpha: 160
Reload 5.0
Frontal Armor 300
Chance of Penetrating JS-2:154/325=0.474
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a JS-2: 960/160=6
Shoots needed in total to finish off a JS-2: 6/12.65~=~13
Average time for a Tiger to finish off a JS-2: 13*5.0=65sec
Cost:720 MP and 200 FU
--------------------------------------------------------------------
JS-2 health:960
Damage Alpha: 240
Reload: 9.0
Frontal Armor:325
Chance of Penetrating Tiger: 170/300=0.5667
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a tiger 1280/240=5.3 ~=~ 6
Shoots needed in total to finish ooff a Tiger: 5.3/0.5667=9.35~=~10
Average time for JS-2 to finish off a Tiger:10*9=90sec
COST: 760 MP and 240 FU
SUM:
Tiger needs 65 sec to finish off a JS-2 while JS-2 took 90 sec to finish off a Tiger
Tiger costs 40MP/40FU less than a Tiger,a nerf to Tiger?
PanzerJager, your name clearly shows which faction you play only
Tiger health: 1280
Alpha: 160
Reload 5.0
Frontal Armor 300
Chance of Penetrating JS-2:154/325=0.474
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a JS-2: 960/160=6
Shoots needed in total to finish off a JS-2: 6/12.65~=~13
Average time for a Tiger to finish off a JS-2: 13*5.0=65sec
Cost:720 MP and 200 FU
--------------------------------------------------------------------
JS-2 health:960
Damage Alpha: 240
Reload: 9.0
Frontal Armor:325
Chance of Penetrating Tiger: 170/300=0.5667
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a tiger 1280/240=5.3 ~=~ 6
Shoots needed in total to finish ooff a Tiger: 5.3/0.5667=9.35~=~10
Average time for JS-2 to finish off a Tiger:10*9=90sec
COST: 760 MP and 240 FU
SUM:
Tiger needs 65 sec to finish off a JS-2 while JS-2 took 90 sec to finish off a Tiger
Tiger costs 40MP/40FU less than a Tiger,a nerf to Tiger?
PanzerJager, your name clearly shows which faction you play only
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
10 Sep 2013, 20:27 PM
#14
Posts: 351
So they are supposed to be used like Volksgrenadiers vs. Riflemen in Coh1? Keeping the range at maximum? Sry for the offtopic.
Well, it's a per bullet decrease but an accuracy and rof increase so it's just more consistent damage.
10 Sep 2013, 21:02 PM
#15
4 
Posts: 369
actually, let' do a math here:
Tiger health: 1280
Alpha: 160
Reload 5.0
Frontal Armor 300
Chance of Penetrating JS-2:154/325=0.474
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a JS-2: 960/160=6
Shoots needed in total to finish off a JS-2: 6/12.65~=~13
Average time for a Tiger to finish off a JS-2: 13*5.0=65sec
Cost:720 MP and 200 FU
--------------------------------------------------------------------
JS-2 health:960
Damage Alpha: 240
Reload: 9.0
Frontal Armor:325
Chance of Penetrating Tiger: 170/325=0.523
Shoots(which penetrated) needed to finish off a tiger 1280/240=5.3 ~=~ 6
Shoots needed in total to finish ooff a Tiger: 5.3/0.523=10.13~=~11
Average time for JS-2 to finish off a Tiger:11*9=99SEC
COST: 760 MP and 240 FU
SUM:
Tiger needs 65 sec to finish off a JS-2 while JS-2 took 99 sec to finish off a Tiger
Tiger costs 40MP/40FU less than a Tiger,a nerf to Tiger?
PanzerJager, your name clearly shows which faction you play only
An IS-2 isn't meant to counter a Tiger though (or at least that's how I understood it). An IS-2 is far better at killing infantry, and a little worse at killing tanks. Seems fair to me, I might actually build the IS-2 sometime now.
10 Sep 2013, 21:18 PM
#16
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Idgaf about Tiger.
Im concerned about those Gren Rifle changes. Whats up with that.
I thought Cons/Grens was supposed to be solid.
it really doesnt change anything significantly
before the patch
k98 3.80 near 2.42 mid 1.03 far
after the patch
k98 3.78 near 2.40 mid 1.03 far
actually, let' do a math here....
you accidentally gave the tiger 325 armor instead of 300. also, for the sake of accurate numbers, the tiger takes 5.25 seconds to shoot and the is2 takes 9.25. thats because it takes .125 seconds to aim and the shot itself takes .125 seconds. pretty minor but i thought id point it out.
10 Sep 2013, 21:19 PM
#17
4 Posts: 505
An IS-2 isn't meant to counter a Tiger though (or at least that's how I understood it). An IS-2 is far better at killing infantry, and a little worse at killing tanks. Seems fair to me, I might actually build the IS-2 sometime now.
Agreed. The IS2 is always used as a soviet approximation for an equivalent of a tiger. But it's role is infantry support and should be used as a breakthrough tanks at the centre of an attack. As it stands now (Thank you for the info UGBEAR) I think the two units are pretty close to where they should be.. at least in relation to each other.
I look forward to using both of them
10 Sep 2013, 21:36 PM
#18
Posts: 954
you accidentally gave the tiger 325 armor instead of 300. also, for the sake of accurate numbers, the tiger takes 5.25 seconds to shoot and the is2 takes 9.25. thats because it takes .125 seconds to aim and the shot itself takes .125 seconds. pretty minor but i thought id point it out.
Thx, corrected, I think the aiming time will be included in the loading time, otherwise it's 68.25 vs. 92.5 still tiger favored(not much of a different here)
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
10 Sep 2013, 21:46 PM
#19
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
aim time is not included in reload time. the full shooting cycle is this:
wind up, fire aim time, shot, wind down, cooldown, reload(if necesarry)
tanks (besides ostwind) have 0 wind up, wind down and cooldown currently. if it was infantry they would be relevant though. for the first shot on a new target, fire aim time is replaced by ready aim time. this also only really matters for inf, since tanks ready aim=fire aim. all tanks (besides ostwind again) will reload after every shot, inf obviously varies a lot in how many times it can shoot before a reload.
its off topic but just a little mechanics explanation for those who care.
wind up, fire aim time, shot, wind down, cooldown, reload(if necesarry)
tanks (besides ostwind) have 0 wind up, wind down and cooldown currently. if it was infantry they would be relevant though. for the first shot on a new target, fire aim time is replaced by ready aim time. this also only really matters for inf, since tanks ready aim=fire aim. all tanks (besides ostwind again) will reload after every shot, inf obviously varies a lot in how many times it can shoot before a reload.
its off topic but just a little mechanics explanation for those who care.
10 Sep 2013, 21:50 PM
#20
Posts: 915
I'm happy we are getting patches so quickly! Regardless of how I feel about the changes these patches are great for the future of Coh2. I have found myself playing less and less (especially with the release of Rome 2) but just knowing there is a effort to make the game better gives me a lot of confidence. Coh2 will be here for the duration, along with the dev teams who improve it. At least I know that if I do decide to take a break I will come back to a more polished and balanced game! Way to go Relic!!
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