Pgrens seem like they have been flipped on their head

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2018, 16:00 PMSander93

Ha I'd like to see the numbers for that, the Panzer II has much higher burst damage up close and the T-70 is fenomenal at wiping retreating squads. They're also immune to small arms fire. You conveniently forgot to mention the even cheaper clown car that can be even more effective at harrassing enemy positions. M20 is overpriced as most people would agree on. But we digress.

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2018, 09:15 AMStark

On the other hand you have unit like Obers - elite infantry squad with great AI performance, with a lot of abilities, potent to fight with ally call in units.

In current meta there is no much room for pgrens this days and that's a shame

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2018, 11:33 AMroll0

No they don't....

They are the same pop as commandos because they are both elite infantry. Just because commandos or pgrens melt under focused LMG fire that doesn't mean they are UP or deserving of a buff, they are flanking units.

Conscripts or tommies cant exactly throw a bundle nade and dish out explosive DPS clearing team weapons or wiping retreating squads even on the move.



So? Just because the meta is mindless a move LMG grens and 222 that doesn't mean Pgrens are UP. When the map allows they are worth their weight in gold, but any buffs to this unit will make them OP like the current 222 that people were crying about for weeks when it was in a decent position before.

Ostheer do not need any more early-mid game buffs

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2018, 09:15 AMStark

On the other hand you have unit like Obers - elite infantry squad with great AI performance, with a lot of abilities, potent to fight with ally call in units.

In current meta there is no much room for pgrens this days and that's a shame

Jump back to quoted post12 Jun 2018, 15:40 PMroll0

Bofors countering ost light vehicle play? lol

If you honestly think the 222 is not OP for 200mp 30f your axis tinted glasses are rather thick indeed. You know it now does more reliable DPS than a 60f luch or 70f t-70?

Bren carrier is 260mp and m20 is 280mp for reference. 222 is OP

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 07:24 AMStark

Guys, 222 isn't the topic of this thread - pgrens are.

222 issue (if it's even exists) doesn't change the problem of panzergranadiers.

There is a reason no1 is using it. Proposals of reducing price, adding armor upgrade, giving posiblity to lay teller mine (maybe riegel or shu mine would be more unique?) or adding a new vet1 ability are really interesting and it would bring fresh breath to this unit, making it more desirable later game.

Some of those changes are at least worth testing in a balance mode

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 02:50 AMFiresparks

pzgrenadier doesn't have the performance of an elite infantry. They are maybe about the performance of a dual bar rifleman.

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 17:29 PMroll0

Compared to what elite infantry? I would rank Pgrens as better than Shocks or Commandos who are also 9pop cap. So you would have to decrease their pop as well surely with any change to pgren.

The only disconnect here IMO is with elite LMG units (LMG obers, LMG paras, pre-nerf guards) that require minimal micro but a-moving into engagements against infantry or MG's and winning.

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 20:26 PMthedarkarmadillo

...That's by design. They have 1 effective role and that's getting into knife range and doing well there...

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 22:36 PMVipper

Actually Shock's have little reason to move closer than range 10 since their DPS is the highest at that range.

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 17:29 PMroll0

Compared to what elite infantry? I would rank Pgrens as better than Shocks or Commandos who are also 9pop cap. So you would have to decrease their pop as well surely with any change to pgren.

The only disconnect here IMO is with elite LMG units (LMG obers, LMG paras, pre-nerf guards) that require minimal micro but a-moving into engagements against infantry or MG's and winning.

Jump back to quoted post13 Jun 2018, 20:26 PMthedarkarmadillo

Shocks can afford to charge because if they don't charge they do 0 damage. That's by design. They have 1 effective role and that's getting into knife range and doing well there. God forbid pgrens who can engage out to mid range lose to a squad designed to win at close range and LITERALLY nothing else full stop. Christ. You want your cake and to eat and to make sure nobody else has any cake and have to watch as you smear it across your maw don't you?

Jump back to quoted post14 Jun 2018, 02:27 AMIncendiaryRounds

Never implied that shocks were op. Just saying that shocks are better than pgrens, and they should be. I had to explain to Rollo, who obviously should spent some more time playing, that pgrens are not better than shocks

Jump back to quoted post14 Jun 2018, 09:09 AMElSlayer

He tries to explain you that PGrens have other applications. You can't use shocks on the defense from cover, you need to charge with them. ALWAYS. It is only niche they cover, of course they are better than PGrens in that particular function.

But this doesn't translate into "shocks are better than pgrens". If unit X can 1v1 unit Y doesn't makes statement "X is better than Y" true. That's debatable.

Just because PGrens can be also used defensively I'd rate them higher than Shocks too despite the fact that Shocks can 1v1 them. I'm with roll0 on that.

Jump back to quoted post14 Jun 2018, 09:09 AMElSlayer

He tries to explain you that PGrens have other applications. You can't use shocks on the defense from cover, you need to charge with them. ALWAYS. It is only niche they cover, of course they are better than PGrens in that particular function.

But this doesn't translate into "shocks are better than pgrens". If unit X can 1v1 unit Y doesn't makes statement "X is better than Y" true. That's debatable.

Just because PGrens can be also used defensively I'd rate them higher than Shocks too despite the fact that Shocks can 1v1 them. I'm with roll0 on that.

Jump back to quoted post15 Jun 2018, 02:50 AMIncendiaryRounds

+1 to Firespark's comment. It's inevitable that you need to do some fighting at mid-long range with pgrens where they will lose to 7pop upgraded riflemen.

Jump back to quoted post15 Jun 2018, 03:09 AMthedarkarmadillo

I fail to see how "shocks can just wait around a sight blocker and eat things" is acceptable but doing the same with pgrens is not..