Pgrens seem like they have been flipped on their head
12 Jun 2018, 05:21 AM
#61
Posts: 5279
Comparing pgrens to line infantry isn't really right, but neither is comparing them to commandos or rangers because pgrens are in 100% of the doctrines Ost can chose out of their large pool of commanders. Want rangers and arty? Get fucked. Want pgrens and arty? Well do you want arty and smoke? Arty and sprint? Arty and stuka nuke? You get the idea. Pgrens aren't propping up a doctrine or a centerpiece that the viability of a commander rests upon.
#stalinwept
12 Jun 2018, 05:29 AM
#62
Posts: 1930
Comparing pgrens to line infantry isn't really right, but neither is comparing them to commandos or rangers because pgrens are in 100% of the doctrines Ost can chose out of their large pool of commanders. Want rangers and arty? Get fucked. Want pgrens and arty? Well do you want arty and smoke? Arty and sprint? Arty and stuka nuke? You get the idea. Pgrens aren't propping up a doctrine or a centerpiece that the viability of a commander rests upon.
the pzgrenadier cost 340 mp and 9 pop. They basically have the cost and upkeep of an elite infantry but the performance of a line infantry.
12 Jun 2018, 05:45 AM
#63
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I don't disagree their performance could be buffed a bit, I just think a straight up buff to their long range dps is a boring solution. Moreover making it an ability like I described makes it counterable for the enemy.
Couldn't hurt to reduce popcap or their price to 300mp as well, or reduce the reinforcement cost a bit.
Couldn't hurt to reduce popcap or their price to 300mp as well, or reduce the reinforcement cost a bit.
12 Jun 2018, 05:57 AM
#64
Posts: 5279
the pzgrenadier cost 340 mp and 9 pop. They basically have the cost and upkeep of an elite infantry but the performance of a line infantry.
Which if I recall is a result of their abuse previously. Pgrens were always formidable before WFAs omnipotent and supremely durable squads were introduced and their elites had to be better yet to a viable choice over their line infantry.
Rangers are so good because rifles are phenomenal. How do you make a more attractive squad than good at all ranges, durable, flexible squads with 2 weapon slots and a grenade? You HAVE to do the same but better. There's minimal room for diversity by design and by design any usf callin squad has to be underwhelming and niche (assault engies) or incredible and arguably OP.
#stalinwept
12 Jun 2018, 06:05 AM
#65
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Following the sound/animation logic to describe Gren riflenade as dodgeable, I don't understand why RE squad riflenade have timer.
12 Jun 2018, 09:08 AM
#66
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Following the sound/animation logic to describe Gren riflenade as dodgeable, I don't understand why RE squad riflenade have timer.
Becouse RE squad rifle nade:
1.doesn't cost ammmo,
2.have fast reload time,
though if it didn't have timer it wouldn't a big balance problem probably.
12 Jun 2018, 09:15 AM
#67
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Comparing pgrens to line infantry isn't really right, but neither is comparing them to commandos or rangers because pgrens are in 100% of the doctrines Ost can chose out of their large pool of commanders. Want rangers and arty? Get fucked. Want pgrens and arty? Well do you want arty and smoke? Arty and sprint? Arty and stuka nuke? You get the idea. Pgrens aren't propping up a doctrine or a centerpiece that the viability of a commander rests upon.
On the other hand you have unit like Obers - elite infantry squad with great AI performance, with a lot of abilities, potent to fight with ally call in units.
In current meta there is no much room for pgrens this days and that's a shame
12 Jun 2018, 09:49 AM
#68
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Imo it is not a matter of Pg being UP but of other infantry being OP.
12 Jun 2018, 09:56 AM
#69
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Becouse RE squad rifle nade:
1.doesn't cost ammmo,
2.have fast reload time,
though if it didn't have timer it wouldn't a big balance problem probably.
Which has nothing to do with the time to react. You can always insta-retreat.
12 Jun 2018, 10:06 AM
#70
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
Which has nothing to do with the time to react. You can always insta-retreat.
It does - it's worse becouse it's free, gren nade require 30 ammo to use and it has huge cooldown.
But why are you talking about it here? There is another topic about gren nade. This one is about Pgrens.
12 Jun 2018, 11:15 AM
#71
Posts: 1740
V2.0 Proposal
AT upgrade
One panzerschreck, anti tank grenade (only stuns),teller mine ability
.
I really like this idea.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
12 Jun 2018, 11:33 AM
#72
Posts: 64
Permanently Banned
the pzgrenadier cost 340 mp and 9 pop. They basically have the cost and upkeep of an elite infantry but the performance of a line infantry.
No they don't....
They are the same pop as commandos because they are both elite infantry. Just because commandos or pgrens melt under focused LMG fire that doesn't mean they are UP or deserving of a buff, they are flanking units.
Conscripts or tommies cant exactly throw a bundle nade and dish out explosive DPS clearing team weapons or wiping retreating squads even on the move.
In current meta there is no much room for pgrens this days and that's a shame
So? Just because the meta is mindless a move LMG grens and 222 that doesn't mean Pgrens are UP. When the map allows they are worth their weight in gold, but any buffs to this unit will make them OP like the current 222 that people were crying about for weeks when it was in a decent position before.
Ostheer do not need any more early-mid game buffs
12 Jun 2018, 13:23 PM
#73
Posts: 2243
No they don't....
They are the same pop as commandos because they are both elite infantry. Just because commandos or pgrens melt under focused LMG fire that doesn't mean they are UP or deserving of a buff, they are flanking units.
Conscripts or tommies cant exactly throw a bundle nade and dish out explosive DPS clearing team weapons or wiping retreating squads even on the move.
So? Just because the meta is mindless a move LMG grens and 222 that doesn't mean Pgrens are UP. When the map allows they are worth their weight in gold, but any buffs to this unit will make them OP like the current 222 that people were crying about for weeks when it was in a decent position before.
Ostheer do not need any more early-mid game buffs
222 isnt op. its only new for allies that axis faction can have light verhicle which isnt fucked up and make some dmg.
it dies to every t70 or stuart...ot to the bofors...which cost the same in a blink of a eye
12 Jun 2018, 14:50 PM
#74
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedSo my initial proposal sounds quite tame after some are asking for a cap reduction to 7. I think a reduction to 8 would suffice. Commandos are worth 9 more than pgrens are. Commandos have camo, smoke, and the tactical assault, 5man. I would like to see some sort of ability pgrens get with armor, after all, they are PANZERgrenadiers. So the aura mentioned earlier could be good, but in the case that aura is op, I suggest some sort of repairing ability since Ost have the worst repair while SU have a few doctrinal repairs.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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12 Jun 2018, 15:11 PM
#75
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
222 isnt op. its only new for allies that axis faction can have light verhicle which isnt fucked up and make some dmg.
it dies to every t70 or stuart...ot to the bofors...which cost the same in a blink of a eye
I'm sick of seeing people complaining about the 222. It's only op when allied players refuse to respect it (like what they used to do.) If the Ost player is spamming them hard, an at gun and an AT inf squad can fend off up to 3 222s. Allied light vehicles still reign supreme in survivability and ease of micro.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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12 Jun 2018, 15:12 PM
#76
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned-
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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12 Jun 2018, 15:40 PM
#77
Posts: 64
Permanently Banned
222 isnt op. its only new for allies that axis faction can have light verhicle which isnt fucked up and make some dmg.
it dies to every t70 or stuart...ot to the bofors...which cost the same in a blink of a eye
Bofors countering ost light vehicle play? lol
If you honestly think the 222 is not OP for 200mp 30f your axis tinted glasses are rather thick indeed. You know it now does more reliable DPS than a 60f luch or 70f t-70?
Bren carrier is 260mp and m20 is 280mp for reference. 222 is OP
12 Jun 2018, 16:00 PM
#78
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
If you honestly think the 222 is not OP for 200mp 30f your axis tinted glasses are rather thick indeed. You know it now does more reliable DPS than a 60f luch or 70f t-70?
P
Ha I'd like to see the numbers for that, the Panzer II has much higher burst damage up close and the T-70 is fenomenal at wiping retreating squads. They're also immune to small arms fire. You conveniently forgot to mention the even cheaper clown car that can be even more effective at harrassing enemy positions. M20 is overpriced as most people would agree on. But we digress.
12 Jun 2018, 16:07 PM
#79
Posts: 503 | Subs: 1
Bofors countering ost light vehicle play? lol
If you honestly think the 222 is not OP for 200mp 30f your axis tinted glasses are rather thick indeed. You know it now does more reliable DPS than a 60f luch or 70f t-70?
Bren carrier is 260mp and m20 is 280mp for reference. 222 is OP
You might want to actually play some Ost before talking out of your ass. Not sure how badly you're playing for 222 to cause more damage than Luchs or T70.
I've killed 222s with the .50cal or with double barred rifles. Previous patch people hardly built 222s (unless they really wanted to lose).
Sure, it's annoying when facing 444 when the opponent micros his LVs well. But it's insanely hard to micro Scout Cars made of paper, and if my opponent keeps them alive, he deserves credit.
12 Jun 2018, 16:17 PM
#80
Posts: 64
Permanently Banned
You might want to actually play some Ost before talking out of your ass. Not sure how badly you're playing for 222 to cause more damage than Luchs or T70.
222 now does better moving DPS chasing down squads for wipes. that is a fact
"B-but you're talking out your ass!"
Someone's projecting
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