SU-76

It's a bit too good and spammable imo. Shouldn't we tune it down a little bit? Give it less range/penetration and rate of fire.

NERF IT TO THE GROUND

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Don't mind me I'm off my whisky bottle.

SU76 needs to be nerfed indeed...Same as Stugs. Both units are overperforming hard.

But please no overnerfs again.

For Stugs a simple ROF nerf would be enough. SU 76 needs to get it´s barrage ability tied to Vet 1(or 2), ROF nerf and vet requirements increased. It vets way too fast right now.

But please no overnerfs again.

This is what we do man.

SU76 needs to be nerfed indeed...Same as Stugs. Both units are overperforming hard.

But please no overnerfs again.

For Stugs a simple ROF nerf would be enough. SU 76 needs to get it´s barrage ability tied to Vet 1(or 2), ROF nerf and vet requirements increased. It vets way too fast right now.

Stugs are not OP. They are just "good". And they need to be "good" because is the only TD Ost have. Sovs instead have SU85 for late-game stages.
If ROF in stug is nerfed, then maybe it will be considered to increase the DPS or Pen.

Stugs are not OP. They are just "good". And they need to be "good" because is the only TD Ost have. Sovs instead have SU85 for late-game stages.
If ROF in stug is nerfed, then maybe it will be considered to increase the DPS or Pen.

If you play this game and you claim Stug is not OP you are simply blind/biased or a combination of both. It´s a 90F TD that has higher ROF than any Allied tank and enough pen to eat TDs and medium tanks for breakfast. It´s almost obscene how much damage two vetted stugs deal to Allied tanks...

Stugs are not OP. They are just "good". And they need to be "good" because is the only TD Ost have. Sovs instead have SU85 for late-game stages.
If ROF in stug is nerfed, then maybe it will be considered to increase the DPS or Pen.

Don't you love it when people with no clue on how stats work write about stats?

RoF IS directly related to DPS and there is no other unit in game with DPS as high as StuG.

The only thing keeping stug from not being one of the most batshit insanely op units in game is 50 range.

You have panther for late game and PaKs for earlz and mid game, why do you need stug?(same reason why SU-76 exists and does what it does btw)

There is literally ONE stock unit across all 3 allied factions that StuG does not easily penetrate and it costs more then twice what StuG does.

To whine for SU-76 and not claim StuG is OP as well is a dictionary example of one sided bias and ignorance.

Don't you love it when people with no clue on how stats work write about stats?

RoF IS directly related to DPS and there is no other unit in game with DPS as high as StuG.

The only thing keeping stug from not being one of the most batshit insanely op units in game is 50 range.

You have panther for late game and PaKs for earlz and mid game, why do you need stug?(same reason why SU-76 exists and does what it does btw)

There is literally ONE stock unit across all 3 allied factions that StuG does not easily penetrate and it costs more then twice what StuG does.

To whine for SU-76 and not claim StuG is OP as well is a dictionary example of one sided bias and ignorance.

Once more, DPS for ballistic weapon without a target size and armor means very little.

The M1 ATG is a unit with better DPS than Stug (above range 20 ) for instance (vs target 1/1).

stug_75mm_mp 2.26/2.11/1.96/1.81/1.66/1.51
m1_57mm_at_gun__mp 2.05/1.98/1.92/1.86/1.74/1.61/1.49

Imo stug is OP. Ostheer seem to survive in 3 stock unit that are op and in doctrinal units/abilities.

Back on thread SU-76 is also OP. It's far penetration is too high, its barrage is too spam-able and XP value too low.

It's a bit too good and spammable imo. Shouldn't we tune it down a little bit? Give it less range/penetration and rate of fire.

StuIIIG is same cost/pop just about, and has more health, more dmg, and better armor.
Should STUG be nerfed into the ground?

- Should all Axis armor have less armor, less health?
- Should MG42 has less suppression because it is inconvenient to allied infantry?

SU76 needs to be nerfed indeed...Same as Stugs. Both units are overperforming hard.

But please no overnerfs again.

For Stugs a simple ROF nerf would be enough. SU 76 needs to get it´s barrage ability tied to Vet 1(or 2), ROF nerf and vet requirements increased. It vets way too fast right now.

- SU76 should lose some pen (it is high) but gain 160 dmg (from 120 dmg).
And change tracking vet 1 to Barrage vet 1 ?

Minus : Reduce Pen
Minus : Replace tracking vet 1 with Barrage vet 1
PRO : Change dmg from 120 to 160.
PRO : Give it AP/HE ammo like Sherman 75.

============

Otherwise :
Remove 50% dmg and suppression from MG.
Remove all HE AOE from Mortars/Artillery.
Remove 100% Pen from TD and AT guns.
Remove all snares
Remove cover and dmg
Remove all rock paper scissors dynamics.

Game now balanced. Everything is useless

Once more, DPS for ballistic weapon without a target size and armor means very little.

The M1 ATG is a unit with better DPS than Stug (above range 20 ) for instance (vs target 1/1).

stug_75mm_mp 2.26/2.11/1.96/1.81/1.66/1.51
m1_57mm_at_gun__mp 2.05/1.98/1.92/1.86/1.74/1.61/1.49

Imo stug is OP. Ostheer seem to survive in 3 stock unit that are op and in doctrinal units/abilities.

Back on thread SU-76 is also OP. It's far penetration is too high, its barrage is too spam-able and XP value too low.

================
- People want to win.
- People tend to min/max a lot. IF they want to win that is.
- Players will tend to go for the OP units.

It's a game design issue. Asking players to buy sub-optimal designs is weak.
- NSD44 solved the issue, kind of, by using cards. Which limit the amount of X unit that can be bought.
- An order of battle, of sorts. We could have divisions instead of Commanders. But this would mean a
complete redesign. I don't see that happening.

It'd be really, really nice if we could make it so everything is desirable.
And there are no weak units, and all metas are equally valuable.

Just saying 'nerf all of soviet OP units' doesn't work unless you can also do same to all
Axis units. Then players using these OP units will scream bloody murder. On all sides.

And just removing them in one faction breaks the game.

* Initial game design has issues.
* Players are whinebags.
* How to fix?

People want to whine about the SU76 but for me, the issue is it's relationship with the StuIIIG.
And, honestly, SU76 has about same price as T34/76. Why shouldn't it be great?

People want it's HE nerfed. Want it's AP nerfed. Want it removed from game.
Ok, fine, not removed from game, but so useless, no one makes it anymore.

I could say please remove all armor from the Panther. Makes as much sense.

Instead of nerfing everything into uselessness, and, yes, making a bleh game.
Look to Magicka (I think is the name) silly game, where everything is OP! But
it is a lot of fun Fun... is what we must not lose sight of.

==============
My Proposal :

- SU76 should lose some pen (it is high) but gain 160 dmg (from 120 dmg).
And change tracking vet 1 to Barrage vet 1 ?

Minus : Reduce Pen
Minus : Replace tracking vet 1 with Barrage vet 1
PRO : Change dmg from 120 to 160.
PRO : Give it AP/HE ammo like Sherman 75. (like ISU152)

This way, it still keeps it's relationship vs StuIIIG
- It hurts late-war axis armor less
- It's Barrage is delayed.
- Like Sherman 75, switching ammo types takes awhile.

This way, StuIIIG can keep the way it is.
If you insist for SU76 to stay 120dmg despite the nerf,
then StuIIIG also needs to go down in dmg to 120 dmg.

which, actually, would make sense, with my Panther proposal
(Make the Panther the TD it's supposed to be) And give people
a reason to make Panthers, despite the StuIIIG overperforming.

Everything affects everthing. Isn't it annoying?

I'm pretty much certain that su-76 will be overnerfed. This is becouse the unit is designed to be an absolute pain for the person that uses it. Mostly becouse it is so cumbersome and becouse it is the only assault gun in the game that can't move its gun at all.

That is why the unit needed such heavy buffs before to be used by anybody else than redxwings before. It needs range becouse it is a sitting duck otherwise. It needs penetration becouse it didn't scale before getting it. Nerfing any of these will just lead the su-76 back to the oblivion of being never used.

if the stug and su76 is nerfed again why the hell would anyone build it. we'd be back to the same crappy meme td's and then thers guna be another topic saying how UP these units and the circle jerk will continue.

For the su76, just increase the barrage cost or just replace it something else (no AI) so it becomes a pure TD and increase its vet requirements, finished.

Honestly, anymore nerfs on the stug would render it useless

- SU76 should lose some pen (it is high) but gain 160 dmg (from 120 dmg).
And change tracking vet 1 to Barrage vet 1 ?

Minus : Reduce Pen
Minus : Replace tracking vet 1 with Barrage vet 1
PRO : Change dmg from 120 to 160.
PRO : Give it AP/HE ammo like Sherman 75.

============

Otherwise :
Remove 50% dmg and suppression from MG.
Remove all HE AOE from Mortars/Artillery.
Remove 100% Pen from TD and AT guns.
Remove all snares
Remove cover and dmg
Remove all rock paper scissors dynamics.

Game now balanced. Everything is useless

this new AAA account is really fucking good

Id be on board for barrage being vet 1 and small pen reduction.
Over reliance on the 76 (and stug for that matter) should be punished by the enemy fielding heavy armour. Thats the whole point of it... They could increase the spread of armour values much in the way they should increase the spread of target sizes to enable better fine tuning but thats never going to happen

Stug is overperforming for its cost. I'd be fine with it if it had a cost increase so double stug face roll wasn't so cost effective.

su76 needs higher vet and barrage to vet 1. The barrage ability gets exponentially better at 2+ su76s.

==============
My Proposal :

- SU76 should lose some pen (it is high) but gain 160 dmg (from 120 dmg).
And change tracking vet 1 to Barrage vet 1 ?

Minus : Reduce Pen
Minus : Replace tracking vet 1 with Barrage vet 1
PRO : Change dmg from 120 to 160.
PRO : Give it AP/HE ammo like Sherman 75. (like ISU152)

This way, it still keeps it's relationship vs StuIIIG
- It hurts late-war axis armor less
- It's Barrage is delayed.
- Like Sherman 75, switching ammo types takes awhile.

Yeah because making it a 60 range AI and AT unit seems fair and balanced.

And giving it an extra 40 damage will out perform any pen nerfs will result in an overall buff rather than a nerf.

Yeah because making it a 60 range AI and AT unit seems fair and balanced.

And giving it an extra 40 damage will out perform any pen nerfs will result in an overall buff rather than a nerf.

Because extremely inaccurate, 90 second cooldown ability makes unit AI....

I guess JT is overpowered too, because it always pens anything it hits and is AI unit as well!

edit: read the post you were replying to, I do agree with you, his idea is stupid and ISU already exists.

this new AAA account is really fucking good

StuG Life - I don't understand the reference to AAA Account.

Katitof : His idea is stupid.
It's an idea. All they do is clamor for everything allied to be nerfed.
I do agree on a few points, but ultimately, it'd be nice to keep the unit
viable. Otherwise, might as well remove 80% of units in the game and only
keep the end units.

SU76 already has low health, low armor, bad mobility, horrendous pathing,
no MG, no HE (save barrage) AND does less dmg (120)

StuG has higher ROF, more health, more armor, an MG and higher dmg, for
comparative cost.

Zis-3 vs Pak40 : Same story. PAK40 is the better AT. But Zis-3 is a hybrid poor man's mortar.
(However, it does 160 dmg)

I'd give the SU-76 160 dmg again, but lower the pen.

As for the barrage, perhaps give it HE/AP ammo, like the Sherman.
Someone said that the Sherman's dual ammo was a nerf (whereas the
Panzer 4 had both better AP, and weaker but implied HE)(It's main
gun kills infantry well and he doesn't have to swap).

I never said my way was the best way. But it's an idea.

If we just listen to the fanboi, they'd be happy to have it removed
from the game entirely, or half health, half armor, -90% dmg -90% range.

ie:

I love my rock, but paper make it pointless. Remove paper please.
Panther gets penned by AT. Nerf SU76 so no one uses it ever again. = Problem solved

Then everything else gets the same treatment, and soon there's only one unit left.
You KNOW it won't stop there.

So I figured, fine, if it's pen bothers you, AND it's barrage bothers you, then...
(mind you, it's 60 range bothers them too, so...)

It's not so low cost, it's about the price of a T34/76.
(When T34/76 was 80 fuel, which isn't so long ago)

Notes :
The SU76 is a small ISU152. Why not have dual ammo types?
Have it replace the barrage, even.

The JT got a barrage ability too.

Yeah because making it a 60 range AI and AT unit seems fair and balanced.

And giving it an extra 40 damage will out perform any pen nerfs will result in an overall buff rather than a nerf.

==========
That's because your bias is intense.

I was going for a swapping of stats, rebalance them. Take something, give something.
It's already got 120 dmg/shot. Which is the weakest in it's category. StuG does 160 dmg.
Would you like StuG dmg nerfed to 120/shot?

You don't want rebalance, you want straight nerf.

That's the game design. Allied TDs are more vulnerable and have more range.
Mind you, it used to have 320 health and the StuG had 400 health. Both were buffed.
Nerf one, other gets nerfed too.
They were balanced together.