nobody bases the ballance around unsupported TDs.
Only for balancing their counters, not so much the TDs themselves.
OKW infantry anti-tank is not sufficient
26 Feb 2018, 18:30 PM
#101
Posts: 2742
Only for balancing their counters, not so much the TDs themselves.
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26 Feb 2018, 18:42 PM
#102
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Quite positive Warp Shift ability was removed from it some time ago.
But I'm not going to bet a hand on that.
I thought we were talking about back in the past.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Feb 2018, 18:48 PM
#103
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I thought we were talking about back in the past.
I don't really know what we're talking about anymore.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Feb 2018, 19:00 PM
#104
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I don't really know what we're talking about anymore.
Plus, that is my exact point, why get JP4 when panther was vastly superior and barely more expensive back then?
Back then, cammo micro + possibility of practically auto win tank combats at vet 5 (specially against USF) was the reason you would pick a JPIV. Not 100% sure but stealth changes only fixed the component of been able to insta toggle the cammo, not the "invulnerable" component. Couldn't find it on the changelog.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Feb 2018, 19:18 PM
#105
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Back then, cammo micro + possibility of practically auto win tank combats at vet 5 (specially against USF) was the reason you would pick a JPIV. Not 100% sure but stealth changes only fixed the component of been able to insta toggle the cammo, not the "invulnerable" component. Couldn't find it on the changelog.
Alright, I'm back on track.
True that, old JP4 with phasing camo and "I 2 shot your KV-2 now" was pretty damn good, but Panther won most picks due to ease of use as it was much more forgiving with Warp Speed, I mean Combat Blitz back then, when it ignored engine damage as well as aforementioned cost of panther not being that much higher.
Oh and THE most important thing why JP4 was a thing back then, it was in battlegroup HQ and you did not needed T4 for it, it could arrive extremely early, even with OKW weird economy. Everpresent shreckvolkblob also made JP4 much more forgiving as there was no way to flank it and get out alive.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Feb 2018, 21:55 PM
#106
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Trying to be as objective as possible here.
After the last patch, came a nerf to the OKW panther and KT. This is fine, since both of those units were extremely effective/ hard to deal with. However, these units were so prevalent due to the underlying issue of the current OKW: terrible AT options. As of now, OKW has only the raketenwerfer and the sturmpios shreck upgrade to deal with tanks. The rakenten CAN cloak AND retreat, which is helpful obviously but with it still suffers from its embarrassingly low range. Sturmpios only get 1 shreck, and are so soft that they can be easily wiped in the open by tanks, infantry, and any indirect fire. This means that units anti infy tanks and tank destroyers like the churchill croc, the firefly, the kv8, the centaur, the jackson overperform against OKW. Tanks like the centaur can obliterate a raketen/pios often before it gets more than 1 shot off. Therefore, as long as a single allied AT gun is in support these tanks have free reign even in the mid to late game. Tank destroyers can't be attacked by infantry due to the poor range, so units like the KT are very difficult to use against a competent allied player. The OP panther and KT were a hole that was filling the one that was left by the OKW infantry, and with that gone, as an OKW player i se myself trying to rely on the PAK 43 for my anti-tank. Really not sure why the raketen isn't replaced by the PAK 40, since at it's current performance the OKW really struggle in that regard.
Just my two-cents. Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong.
Volkgrenadier need a 5x Panzershrek upgrade that they can set aside like Sturmpios can
set aside their Hazard Kit. This way, they can still keep their 5x STG44 upgrade.
Each Panzershrek needs to strike with the AOE and power of a SturmTiger shell hit.
Range needs to be increased as well, as well as make Volkgrenadier resistant to suppression
so they can blow away Centaur and any unit that currently out counters VolksGrenadiers.
Range needs to be increased so Volksgrenadiers can annihilate enemy HQ from out of LOS.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
26 Feb 2018, 21:56 PM
#107
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Alright, I'm back on track.
True that, old JP4 with phasing camo and "I 2 shot your KV-2 now" was pretty damn good, but Panther won most picks due to ease of use as it was much more forgiving with Warp Speed, I mean Combat Blitz back then, when it ignored engine damage as well as aforementioned cost of panther not being that much higher.
Oh and THE most important thing why JP4 was a thing back then, it was in battlegroup HQ and you did not needed T4 for it, it could arrive extremely early, even with OKW weird economy. Everpresent shreckvolkblob also made JP4 much more forgiving as there was no way to flank it and get out alive.
I remember early JP4 + Volk shrek blob *Shudders in fright*
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
27 Feb 2018, 06:44 AM
#108
Posts: 1930
So was okw truck system at release, shall we go back to that?
The okw have the de facto best heavy tank in the entire game as part of its main tree.
The King tiger will easily beat any heavy tank from the allies, half of whom require a doctrine to access. (and if we are talking about heavy tank, we are at the end game stage)
The jp4's excellent anti-td capability allow it to counter the main threat against king tiger, TD. The jp4 isn't as good at tackling heavy tank as the allies, but the okw have the king tiger.
If you want the jp4 to actually get a main gun worthy of the L70 name, then there need to be compromise.
27 Feb 2018, 06:53 AM
#109
Posts: 2243
nobody bases the ballance around unsupported TDs.
this is the joke: jackson can be good even unsupportet. They can spot for itsself and see what is around them.
i often can play with 2 jackson to flank with them the enemy and kill 1 medium....and run fast back with no problem.
jackson are so mobil, have good suvivabilty, and very fast that is no problem to deal with th armor and maybe one Atgun. the atgun is easy overrun and can get maybe 1-2 hit till the medium is down and you rushing back to your own base.
try this with 2 jpz4.
27 Feb 2018, 06:54 AM
#110
Posts: 1930
this is the joke: jackson can be good even unsupportet. They can spot for itsself and see what is around them.
i often can play with 2 jackson to flank with them the enemy and kill 1 medium....and run fast back with no problem.
jackson are so mobil, have good suvivabilty, and very fast that is no problem to deal with th armor and maybe one Atgun. the atgun is easy overrun and can get maybe 1-2 hit till the medium is down and you rushing back to your own base.
try this with 2 jpz4.
how could a jpz4 better than jackson in defense? a jackson need only sight on a german armor and can now kit them. because they outrange them with huge range, huge view range and high mobility.
all of that the jpz4 have not. (except same shot range)..it has only higher armor and a lil bit faster reload.
a jpz4 on defence is helpless without support..it cant see anything alone, is slow, has bad accur while moving and is easy flankable...how could it be better? maybe in hose where no tanks can flank you...but most maps have very good flankable positons.
the jp4 get 45 sight cone 45 degree to the front with a 60m gun.
the jackson have 40 360 degree sight with a 60m gun. At vet 3 it get another 5 meter sight.
the Jackson shouldn't be out ranging the jp4.
27 Feb 2018, 07:10 AM
#111
Posts: 2243
the jp4 get 45 sight cone 45 degree to the front with a 60m gun.
the jackson have 40 360 degree sight with a 60m gun. At vet 3 it get another 5 meter sight.
the Jackson shouldn't be out ranging the jp4.
who make head on head fight with a jackson vs a jpz4? you can easily flank him and kill the jp4 with get only 1-2 hits.
27 Feb 2018, 07:42 AM
#112
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
who make head on head fight with a jackson vs a jpz4? you can easily flank me and kill my jp4 with get only 1-2 hits.
Good players tend to cover their JP4 flanks.
27 Feb 2018, 08:04 AM
#113
Posts: 2243
Good players tend to cover their JP4 flanks.
you must read the other posts.. it goes around a head on head fight vs this two TDs. not in a realistic game fight. a static arraged fight...a jackson will win..every time.
27 Feb 2018, 08:07 AM
#114
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
you must read the other posts.. it goes around a head on head fight vs this two TDs. not in a realistic game fight. a static arraged fight...a jackson will win..every time.
VS you only. I have played enough matchup USF vs OKW to tell you sometime Jackson wins, sometime JP4 wins. It is all about skill.
27 Feb 2018, 08:28 AM
#115
Posts: 2243
VS you only. I have played enough matchup USF vs OKW to tell you sometime Jackson wins, sometime JP4 wins. It is all about skill.
so lets fight 10 matches you get only jpz4 and i get only a jackson. and than we see who big the impact of skill will set to the fight.
I think this is how it's gonna go down... you'll see the enemy jackson, and you'll be able to fire 1-2 shots before it's my turn and flank you.
i bet 10 bugs
27 Feb 2018, 08:54 AM
#116
Posts: 1273
Good players do cover their JP4 flanks.
27 Feb 2018, 09:30 AM
#117
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
the jp4 get 45 sight cone 45 degree to the front with a 60m gun.
the jackson have 40 360 degree sight with a 60m gun. At vet 3 it get another 5 meter sight.
the Jackson shouldn't be out ranging the jp4.
The vet bonus of M36 is at vet 2 not vet 3.
27 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
#118
Posts: 26
>Topic about the fact that OKW lacks proper AT and that's a real balance issue
>Instant reply that you can build a TD in T4 so it's somehow fine (lolwut?)
>jp4 is really lackluster and it doesn't even adress the topic's point. Also jackson is a thing
>lol just cover jp's flanks, it's ez pz if ur good
>The whole topic is literally about how OKW's non-vehicle based AT sucks therefore you can't cover anything properly
Welp, looks like the circle of braindead fanboyism is finally complete. Shall we start again then?
>Instant reply that you can build a TD in T4 so it's somehow fine (lolwut?)
>jp4 is really lackluster and it doesn't even adress the topic's point. Also jackson is a thing
>lol just cover jp's flanks, it's ez pz if ur good
>The whole topic is literally about how OKW's non-vehicle based AT sucks therefore you can't cover anything properly
Welp, looks like the circle of braindead fanboyism is finally complete. Shall we start again then?
27 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM
#119
Posts: 2243
>Topic about the fact that OKW lacks proper AT and that's a real balance issue
>Instant reply that you can build a TD in T4 so it's somehow fine (lolwut?)
>jp4 is really lackluster and it doesn't even adress the topic's point. Also jackson is a thing
>lol just cover jp's flanks, it's ez pz if ur good
>The whole topic is literally about how OKW's non-vehicle based AT sucks therefore you can't cover anything properly
Welp, looks like the circle of braindead fanboyism is finally complete. Shall we start again then?
yeah..we say that okw need better non-verhicle AT.
> we get the argue that jpz4 is fine (WTF!)
> we get thats the OKW faction design (WTF)!! Reminder: volks with schreck was the intend faction design!
> and we get to this absolut dumb argue: to have a good AT you need the jpz4! but you must save it with at gun at the flank, to be good! WTF is wrong in this people heads?
27 Feb 2018, 10:06 AM
#120
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
>Topic about the fact that OKW lacks proper AT and that's a real balance issue
>Instant reply that you can build a TD in T4 so it's somehow fine (lolwut?)
>jp4 is really lackluster and it doesn't even adress the topic's point. Also jackson is a thing
>lol just cover jp's flanks, it's ez pz if ur good
>The whole topic is literally about how OKW's non-vehicle based AT sucks therefore you can't cover anything properly
Welp, looks like the circle of braindead fanboyism is finally complete. Shall we start again then?
As a matter of fact, OKW is the factions with the most numerous dedicated AT options in the game, from Pzfaust to Jtiger and this not counting the KT or SturmTiger which counter pretty much everything with disregard of being on foot or on wheel.
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