[DBP] Mechanized Doctrine feedback thread

I don't see something fundamentally wrong with a doctrine having access to a lot of call-in units as long as:
- it doesn't force you to use all of them (i.e., leaves it up to you to decide which tools are right for which occasion)
- the doctrine doesn't provide you with an easy-mode cookie-cutter buildorder you can use to stranglehold your opponent

The first one means that a doctrine has sufficiently enough depth to allow you to use it in multiple ways (as opposed to, say, Lightning War). The second objective means that players that have to counter said doctrine won't be hating themselves if they have to play against it every single time (as opposed to live-version Penal-Lend-lease or Mechanised Assault of yesteryear).

Having played the doctrine a lot more, the weakest link appears to be the M3-AssEng bundle, in that it forces you to have both, when you only want one of them.

Perhaps the best way to resolve this one is make M3 appear empty, and give the M3 an ability to call-in Assault Engineers at full price if you want to have an AssEng (or if you want to buy replacements).

That's because for most of the maps you would really want to use M3 halftracks (i.e., open maps) you don't really need AssEng, and for the kind of maps you want to use AssEng, you really don't want duplicate M3's all the damn time.

As for the M21 MHT I would still build at least 1 of them; especially vs campy players, even if autoattack was completely removed. This is due to the sheer utility that a separate cooldown on smoke barrage gives you, which allows you to double up with White Phosphorus shells or a normal barrage.

or simply make ass eng a tier 0 unit

or simply make ass eng a tier 0 unit

Yeah, exactly. The M3 is just a pointless added step in getting assault engineers. Would be way better to just have them ready to call in from the start. Would also mean you could mix up the strategy early game.
I think the balance team may be over-estimating the M3's usefulness.

or simply make ass eng a tier 0 unit

This, even if it had to be buildable instead of a call-in

Yeah, exactly. The M3 is just a pointless added step in getting assault engineers. Would be way better to just have them ready to call in from the start. Would also mean you could mix up the strategy early game.
I think the balance team may be over-estimating the M3's usefulness.

It might also be that you are overestimating USF core-faction mobility post FRP-nerfs.

It might also be that you are overestimating USF core-faction mobility post FRP-nerfs.

FRPs for USF is major tier. Investing in an m3 for mobility, or solely for assault engineers is largely unaffected by FRP changes...

It might also be that you are overestimating USF core-faction mobility post FRP-nerfs.

So you're nerfing the main thing that makes USF good.

I’m guessing asking for the 76 to be replaced by the ez8 is pointless considering it will give people much less reason to choose Rifle doctrine if Mechinized also had the Ez8

WC51- The unit is very very fragile now. It barley beat a kubel with the gun upgrade. This may be fair for the price of 200 MP, but I think it will have very limited uses even transporting troops or doing anything other than scouting and capping. Mabye thats OK, but it would be nice to flank mgs ect, and I don't think thats feasible with the current armor levels. I had like 2 pios (2 models) at mid range scaring me off at one point testing vs AI.

The mark target seems very strong with a 25% armor reduction, But I cannot say how that compares to other similar abilities

Putting the artillery on this may be a bit too many things going on. I think giving one of the sherman's the arty strike may be more appropriate and less frustrating. I think a lot of players are gonna get angry if they keep losing the truck when it is so core to the commander's late game potential.

I think giving the 76 MM sherman some kind of commander style augmentations would give it some cool flavor, so long as its still a respectable combat unit. (more command p4, than command vehicle, different not less)

It might also be that you are overestimating USF core-faction mobility post FRP-nerfs.

I think the m3 is useful but why not give it an AA upgrade or the mark target ability ?

I think that now is a great commander.
- Raid operations should cost a little bit more or have a higher cooldown, because right now is slightly too good.
- The WC51 should cost a little bit of fuel to make it less abusive at the start.
- The mortar halftrack is fine.
- The M3 halftrack is fine, maybe it would be better without the combat engineers.
- The Sherman changes are really interesting, it adds variety and I think that the costs are balanced. Heavy tanks should be able to destroy the cover created by the bulldozer though.
Overall, great changes to all the commanders. Mechanized in particularly feels great, it really feels like controlling a USF convoy. It would be nice if ostheer had a similar commander.

I dont know about the WC51,to me it seems fine with the fact upon call-off riflemen need to garrison to be useful. Also if kept alive, remain to be useful throughout the game.

Raid operations is very good, considering this is restricted to infantry and light vehicles no problem here. If it did receive muni cost increase at any point, this would impact recon support which is now quite muni heavy.

M3 halftruck is nice with the cost decrease however, after playing with assault engineers for a while (as well as in Armour company) they come to late. At-lease in Armour company they can get the jump early game to help clear garrisons, after that they become bleed and if use for assaults later, are pron to get wiped (32mp is to much, they cost more than strums to reinforce and now have nerf demos).

Could consider just making the halt-truck available without the assault engineers but that would get rid of the flavor of the call in.

The mortar half-truck is fine, could do with a light scatter increase on auto-fire mainly because of the shear amount of utility it hads now.

Sherman bulldozer upgrade is decent. no compaliants here.

M4C Sherman: on the fence when tied to tech. With better pen ( clarify if its 120/130/140 thank you) than the Regular Sherman, dosent hold value to me besides the rof, to me thats all whats going for it.

Just my opinion, the commander overall feels great even if it does not receive any further changes.

Is there any chance of a fuel cost decrease on the 76mm? It's in between a standard M4A3 and an Easy Eight, so shouldn't the price be in between too?

How to balance Mech in current balance (DBP)

The jeep to me or maybe others does feel out of spot, doesn't really fit into the current balance. Trying to give it ability to make if fit a purpose isn't gonna to help it, just make it worse. just get rid of the jeep really.

replace the jeep with combat engineer callin.

keep raid ability in.

keep the mortar halftrack callin. its a great callin for mech suits the role quite well.

the m3 halftrack with calvary rifleman is a great idea, suits the theme of mech quite well. Ostheer has pgrens in a halftrack callin which is great.

and replace M4C with easy eight.

How to balance Mech in current balance (DBP)

The jeep to me or maybe others does feel out of spot, doesn't really fit into the current balance. Trying to give it ability to make if fit a purpose isn't gonna to help it, just make it worse. just get rid of the jeep really.

replace the jeep with combat engineer callin.

keep raid ability in.

keep the mortar halftrack callin. its a great callin for mech suits the role quite well.

the m3 halftrack with calvary rifleman is a great idea, suits the theme of mech quite well. Ostheer has pgrens in a halftrack callin which is great.

and replace M4C with easy eight.

I agree with replacing the jeep with assault engineers. I would love to have easy eights, the only reason I didnt mention replacing the M4C with easy eights instead was because you would probably never see rifle company again.

The M3 Half track is might be too powerful with healing crates. When you use a half track to reinforce on the field you give up healing thus being susceptible to bleed which is the trade off to keep up map control. By giving it healing crates along side USF ability to use smoke grenades to counter the main weakness which is being suppressed, you can keep up the pressure unlike any other faction.

The team must really want us to use Assault Engineers, with all these buffs left and right. Personally, I just don't get why it can't be Cavalry Rifles.

I mean, look. I can't figure out why they're so insistent.

Assault Engineers

Target size decreased from 1 to 0.9
Veterancy 1: Now also adds Destroy Cover to the unit
Reinforcement cost reduced from 35 to 30
Popcap reduced from 8 to 7

And now with the latest update they're just giving the M3 with only the AE's inside.

M3 Assault Group

To make the pricing of this bundle ability more attractive, we are replacing the vehicle crew of the M3 Half-track with the Assault Engineer squad that the ability originally came with separately.

Assault Engineer squad replaces the vehicle crew
Cost reduced from 460MP/30FU to 290MP/30FU

We get it, Assault Engies are cool and tougher than ever before, but this isn't Armor Doctrine, and they just don't fit the way Cavalry would.

And now with the latest update they're just giving the M3 with only the AE's inside.

Kek.

AEs are nice because they're the engineer unit that USF wishes it had already.

But a squad of AE aren't worth any amount of fuel.

In fact, none of the callins that come with infantry are worth the fuel. Be that assault guards, the lmg grens, the 250HT pgrens.

Unless that halftrack can somehow upgrade to have a mortar team inside, it's a dead investment as far as fuel is concerned.

I find it funny they reduced the manpower by 170, but then one would have to abandon the vehicle to use AEs and put 200mp REs in it.

Is it really necessary for the mortar ht to have 4 firing modes tho? That feels like an overkill.

Kek.

AEs are nice because they're the engineer unit that USF wishes it had already.

But a squad of AE aren't worth any amount of fuel.

In fact, none of the callins that come with infantry are worth the fuel. Be that assault guards, the lmg grens, the 250HT pgrens.

Unless that halftrack can somehow upgrade to have a mortar team inside, it's a dead investment as far as fuel is concerned.

I find it funny they reduced the manpower by 170, but then one would have to abandon the vehicle to use AEs and put 200mp REs in it.

Replacing a major costs 150 manpower if you choose to crew the vehicle with him later in the game

I like this commander, evrything is perfect