December Balance Preview

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:18 PMMr.Smith

The Stug is supposed to fill that role. It's cheap, has reliable DPS and generally trades very well. For OKW you have JP4, 'nuff said.

The stug is supposed to fill that role yet gets outranged by now more powerful tank destroyers.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:33 PMjagd wölfe

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:18 PMMr.Smith

The Stug is supposed to fill that role. It's cheap, has reliable DPS and generally trades very well. For OKW you have JP4, 'nuff said.

The stug is supposed to fill that role yet gets outranged by now more powerful tank destroyers.

The stug is supposed to fill that role yet gets outranged by now more powerful tank destroyers.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:15 PMvasa1719

Why you think panther are good choise vs TD ? Isnt panther are vs medium spam somthing like shield and vs heavy tanks ? OStheer have stugs, that are revialble TD, coz his stats and his price make him good. Imo you canot use arguments like this (I understand the idea behind trying to quell panther spam, but dives from panther spam can be halted with mines and they become easy kills for 60 range TDs. ) for reason that this game has sweepers.

T-34 price and pop cap its another problem, you cannot use its like argument do show how heavy TD are weak, coz if heavy units dont have support its will be dead unit soon. Its rule by game. How many flanks you can do in minsk, kharkov, reils and metal and another maps ?
I see problem with heavy TD, you put JT and he win the game, coz he 2 shoots tanks and TD from 85 range, also with ability he counter AT guns adn GL to penetrate his armor.

Jackson adn JP are same category TD, but one of them can be counter, coz low HP adn bad armor. It will be glass canon if its have like 70 range, but no, 60.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:18 PMMr.Smith

The Stug is supposed to fill that role. It's cheap, has reliable DPS and generally trades very well. For OKW you have JP4, 'nuff said.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:21 PMOutsider_Sidaroth

The thing is, the Jackson is your ultimate answer to everything, unless you went Pershing, as it's your sole Tank Destroyer and currently it can fail miserably at it's job, due to it's squishyness not allowing it to do any sort of chase to finish of enemy tanks, then there is the HVAP arounds bugging out.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 16:39 PMVipper

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Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 14:16 PMvasa1719

How ISU buff change that fact, that ele and JT counter it ? How JT nerf make ISU more better ?

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 17:54 PMShadowLinkX37

StuGs cannot trade vs good allied TD users. Similar problem with the KT vs Su85. Yes the Kt will ruin an SU85 if it gets in range, but you can kite all day with the 85 and the KT will eventually lose. But you expect a 480 HP StuG to trade against firefly which can burst down a StuG immediatly with shot/tulips combo? Also god forbid a firefly gets vet 3 and begins to 2 shot stugs without rockets. Jackson Hvap potentially can do the same.

On the sweeper comment. According to smith just use MGs to stop sweepers. flanks denied.

I never said Heavy TDs are weak, but at the very least the elephant is the only thing keeping ostheer even remotely in teamgames atm along with stuka dive bomb. As said above, ostheer will have zero armor counters to allied TDs.

I want stuka dive bombed nerfed as much as everyone else (or at least add flares for christ sake). but ostheer will be extinct in teamgames if not many of these changes are altered.

As far as the T34s go, that sounds like a map issue, not a heavy TD issue. If a unit is broken on 1 map and trash on another that doesn't really sound like the units fault.

And for the JP4, one has a turret and better mobility and better penetration. Not that the penetration really matters against the jackson, but is sure as hell annoying against the IS2. Also vehicle crews, Hvap etc. I understand what you're getting at that the JP4 is a good TD, and it is but the JP4 can be countered by both allied TDs and flanks from mediums. Where as the jackson is more difficult to be countered by flanks due to the soon panther nerfs and its high mobility. So just overall, the JP4 can be countered in multiple ways, where the future jackson won't be.



JP4 sure. StuG most definatly not against FFs, and soon jacksons.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:44 PMvasa1719

When allies get 1 TD you can get 2 stugs, 2 stugs trade every allies TD, coz thay cannot get 2 of them early then you get 2 stugs, also stug popcap, 4 sec reload, that will be like 3 in vet 3.
STug have 560 hp. Also vs slow unit, with slow turret, need somthing more then front attack like husars.I can say same vanilla story, vet 5 JP will be beat FF/su-85/jackson, with com panther buff and docs ability she will be outrange them and kill with 2 shoots. I think FF need a little fix, 260 damage in vet 3 looks not good now.

Sweeper argument, was about you double standarts, in one example you heavy TD that covered by mines was outplayed with sweeeper and tanks, in another, you panther spam lose vs mines.

I can agree and not, i dont play with ele adn only problem as 2 ostheer we have vs crocodile combo with FF. Dont forget about skill planes. Ele is not so broken like JT, but ele doc with dive bomb make its terrible, coz dive bomb AOE is terrible wihtout flayers. Pathing kills more tanks in this game then AT guns nd TD. Problem with TD wars can be in vision, who get 1 shoot, make last. So allies with t-70 recon mode looks better with it.
Wait, ostheer have stugs taht are good for trades, pacs, shreks, docs ability, to counter all this stuff need a lot pop cap and recourses. Big problem imo are play with ostheer vs sniper/ penals combo coz now you cannot trade 222 into sniper, but must play like goplits, pushing its with 222/flame HT slowly, step byt step.

If TD get flanked imo its not problem of units, its or snowball or hero/stupid rush that mean same sometimes. Penetretion is argument, but vet buffs, armor, target size, reload mean too somthing. I agree about crew andrepeir, but not for all, OKW mehanized. All TD can be flanked, FF reload, slow speed and slow turret make him good target for flank, he have more chance to survive, but i think its must be a different playstyle with TD with turret adn wihtout. Its like play with cons and penals. From my experience, all that can save jackson when he flanked, its ground shoots and zooks, if its dont help he will be dead, like JP, su85 or FF.......

But now, in live version for years stug > jackson.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:39 PMcome on let's go

Because Jagtiger is tank killer same as nerfed elephant and buffed ISU- 152

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:47 PMvasa1719

So waht the problem to deal with ISU with both this units ?

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:45 PMcome on let's go

Are you actually saying that stug is better than jackson already for years???????????

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:49 PMvasa1719

I say taht stug is better vs jackson.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:48 PMcome on let's go

OMG really???

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:03 PMMarkedRaptor

People seem to forget that a TD can only do one thing, destroy tanks.

Units like the Comet or Panther are different. They can crush, pressure and force infantry away (Which Panther does way better because it's MG's are crazy), and inflict bleed. When your opponent invests in things like, a jackson or a firefly, all it is there to do is to deter tanks. It fires at the Panther and tries to scare it off (God help you if you try to dive a panther with potential teller mines around or paks). The popcap for a TD is basically inflicting bleed on yourself since your just trying to scare off the tank.

Then, you aren't even guaranteed to hit or pen the Panther. A firefly alone would take 30 friggen seconds to kill a panther (if all shots hit and all shots penetrated). The panther has basically run amok during this time especially if it's using cheeky shot blockers. If people complain that the Panther can't reliably destroy tanks, and is too hard to get, that sounds like a reload problem (Which the patch is addressing) and tech/fuel cost. I admit it's a bit odd how brits can get their Comet somewhat sooner then a German player can get a Panther, but the factions have trade offs to one another.

The Jackson buff seems like a necessary evil, it's all USF has non-doct and the only tank USF can use past 20 minutes. If I had a choice I'd like to make it more like the M10 where it has shorter range but can be a monster up close and dives like no tomorrow. The true 'Murica way.

Jump back to quoted post1 Nov 2017, 18:54 PMvasa1719

Early you write, taht JT and ELE are TD, so i ask question, how ISU buff and there nerf, make them worse vs ISU ? No penetretion ? Its still same 4 penetrated shoots to kill ISU - 300 * 4 = 1200, 320 * 4 = 1280. ISU hit points = 1040.