Fall Balance Preview

Well in teamgames maxims are still too expensive to reinforce. There is more mortar arty etc

Can't speak for teamgame performance. With conscript changes not going through either i'm not sure if maxim is sufficiently improved- too good and its spammed, but going t2 + conscripts doesn't seem very competitive compared to t1 still. Time will tell.

ML20 dies to Wehrmacht/ OKW arty. also some airdrops. So ML20 is not too strong.

It's definitely counterable with offmaps but i don't think returning to the ironclad commander counterpicking like back in the B4 terror days is a good thing either. Regardless i don't think this one is a huge deal, more testing will reveal if it's really an issue.

Well atlteast you can't go 2-3 Kübel anymore and don't lose manpower.

Thank goodness for that

is a necessary option.

Just add this check box :

x Use the fall balance mod when looking for an automatch.


When the box is checked, the matchmaker will try to find a fall balance modded match.

Your idea of periodic small patches taking care of predefined, singular problems (A.K.A. the scope) has failed miserably. You may maintain the view that it is to prevent huge imbalances that would be difficult to predict and fix, but in the end it blocks very meaningful changes; I remember huge patches years ago, not talking about redesigns, but the patches before Western Front Armies. The patchnotes pages long and of quality, not quantity. Where is your ability to balance so many things at once now, where did it go? I am very glad you saw my harsh comment, so you can consider what I wrote now.

Also adding conscripts to the scope would be sweet.

failure according to who? i think we can all agree that the bestest of changes pre-wfa were small arms damage change, elongation of early and mid game, received accuracy penalties to team weapons.... those are redesigns, like this patch is doing with call-ins and FRP... it seems as though you declare recent patches failure just cause you don't like it. hey man, i hated and still hate penal change. i dont agree with it but after that patch, 2v2+ got more balanced.

also i appreciate people giving their opinions clearly and without insults.

please leave out personal insults since it will probably be invis-ed. If you do not agree with the change, instead of looking for another evil figurehead, maybe play the mod, make a vid, upload a replay to show why you think you are right etc etc. what's that? it takes too much time? you have a baby, career, busy schedule? well aren't we all busy?

Overall interesting stuff that will be a treat to play around with! Will there be any "supply bonus with mod" events coming up to gather more feedback?

One thing I found curious was the change to the Panzerwerfer - I have the impression it is one of the weaker "arties" in the game, what gives?

I know this is off topic, but will full mod tools come with this patch when it goes live. Or is that ever going to happen?

failure according to who? i think we can all agree that the bestest of changes pre-wfa were small arms damage change, elongation of early and mid game, received accuracy penalties to team weapons.... those are redesigns, like this patch is doing with call-ins and FRP... it seems as though you declare recent patches failure just cause you don't like it. hey man, i hated and still hate penal change. i dont agree with it but after that patch, 2v2+ got more balanced.

Please do not refuse validity of statements because of people who stated them.
The changes themselves are good, but
a) at this rate of patches the game is doomed to be spoiled forever. There are simply too few changes for such period of time. The system provided by Relic would be great for a game like Dota 2 (which is already there to a certain extent); too bad CoH2 has too few patches per year to make it work.
b) some of the changes are cancelling out the others. For example take the T3/T4 Wehr dilemma or Conscript/Elite infantry problem. You can't properly balance one unit without modifying others, and scope prevents exactly that. This has been pointed out so many times I cannot believe I need to write this.

Also while it may seem so, I do not think the patches are bad - I am impressed with almost all the changes made by the balance team. Note I declared the patch system a failure, not the patches themselves.

kyle pls read this and make a big patch or make them more often thx

These are awesome changes. Thank you to Relic and everyone involved in the patch!

Actually you are completely mistaken.

The German Flak 88 was never designed as direct fire weapon but as AA gun able to have its shell explode in mid air so that the explosion and the shrapnel could knock out planes.

Since the same weapon was used against land targets a similar technique was used to provide "indirect" fire support, and the same timer fuse was used to explode the shell over the intended soft target for instance a trench.

i'm not. this is possible for artillery weapons (time fuse) due to the long time of flight to target (relatively). from a tank it is not done.

Some small action about the new Calliope, Vet1 isg and Stuka dive bomb:

look here

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160044170

ISG vet1 hit on T70
1 hour. 31 min. 50 sec


Calliope closerange vs house:
2 hour 16 min.00 sec

Calliope closerange vs Gren:
2 hours 18min 28 sec.

Stukadive bombe:
2 hour 16.min 54 sec.

that pack howitzer did horrible. in about 50 shots it got 2 kills lol

WARNING: Butthurt Axis Fanboy Spotted.

Troll harder next time. I believe in you.

Lol ze battlegruppe change is to prevent units stucking between truck and wooden plank near to it.

Meet the bug many times and still placing HQ in way to face it again. Definitely something wrong with Relic, not me.

Let me paraphrase you and edit your walking stuka a bit.
Personally I see no problems with calliOP wipes because next barrage will happen after long recharge + calliOP costs a lot of fuel. Mortars is worse because the unit inflicted it can continue to fight. Same with Land Matress. If you retreated your volksblob to the Batlegruppe and forgot about it don't blame the UKF call in ability - blame yourself, puddinghead.

Isnt it the same ???

Is it the same for you to using Stuka vs moving advancing blobs with it's 'linear undependable of how far are you from target' zone of fire and using calli/katy in same way? So who's fanboy here?

micro thing,core concept of coh

Sure, and when blobs are rekt with demo it's definitely not a microing issue. Pak walls died under rocket arty not a microing issue? I lol'd.

Please do not refuse validity of statements because of people who stated them.
The changes themselves are good, but
a) at this rate of patches the game is doomed to be spoiled forever. There are simply too few changes for such period of time. The system provided by Relic would be great for a game like Dota 2 (which is already there to a certain extent); too bad CoH2 has too few patches per year to make it work.
b) some of the changes are cancelling out the others. For example take the T3/T4 Wehr dilemma or Conscript/Elite infantry problem. You can't properly balance one unit without modifying others, and scope prevents exactly that. This has been pointed out so many times I cannot believe I need to write this.

Also while it may seem so, I do not think the patches are bad - I am impressed with almost all the changes made by the balance team. Note I declared the patch system a failure, not the patches themselves.

kyle pls read this and make a big patch or make them more often thx

with b), but dont you think you can't balance everything at once? it was different when it was only two factions but now there is five. the only way to properly balance is to, imo, smaller scale with smaller scope for each individual patches with higher frequencies (per month maybe?) I think the way the "scope" is thought of is completely out of touch with how it should be thought of imo. Instead of factions and units being in the "scope", it should be concepts like "call-ins", "inf-balance" etc etc.

So in my opinion, we would start with "call ins", then next month, "FRPs", then "late game team-game balances" etc etc. you cant have everything meddled at once so every results get muddled together so you can't see which meddling caused which results, which is my main criticism of big scope big patches.

with a), it is just Relic not having infinite resources no? i mean i am sure they are still mostly focused on DoW3.

But the my main problem with your comment is that CoH2 is not a failure nor it is doomed. Its got good enough player base. It has not reached its potential in the same sense as all the americans who has not and will not become the president... in that sense, you can say CoH2 is a failure cause it had potential but to be honest what doesn't?

Hey they are finally considering my idea for the kv1... after 2? maybe 3 years?

Troll harder next time. I believe in you.

Meet the bug many times and still placing HQ in way to face it again. Definitely something wrong with Relic, not me.

Is it the same for you to using Stuka vs moving advancing blobs with it's 'linear undependable of how far are you from target' zone of fire and using calli/katy in same way? So who's fanboy here?

Sure, and when blobs are rekt with demo it's definitely not a microing issue. Pak walls died under rocket arty not a microing issue? I lol'd.

I hate demos they are one wipe wondwrs that shouldnt be in game. You literaly start with -1 squad as a is if you look at it from long perspectivd because no matter how much you try you must get eithet 2 sweeper squads (less mp for fighting squads) or lose at least 1 squad to demos thorough whole match. Thats a poor desing, demos shouldntbe there, not in this demonstration.

Your argument about arty was wheb it costs a lot and has a long recharge time it should wipe. Then this should apply to both side or to any of them (i preffer any of them, i hate one click wonders).

I said nades are a microing issue, do you consider rocket arty a nade ?

with b), but dont you think you can't balance everything at once? it was different when it was only two factions but now there is five. the only way to properly balance is to, imo, smaller scale with smaller scope for each individual patches with higher frequencies (per month maybe?) I think the way the "scope" is thought of is completely out of touch with how it should be thought of imo. Instead of factions and units being in the "scope", it should be concepts like "call-ins", "inf-balance" etc etc.

So in my opinion, we would start with "call ins", then next month, "FRPs", then "late game team-game balances" etc etc. you cant have everything meddled at once so every results get muddled together so you can't see which meddling caused which results, which is my main criticism of big scope big patches.

with a), it is just Relic not having infinite resources no? i mean i am sure they are still mostly focused on DoW3.

But the my main problem with your comment is that CoH2 is not a failure nor it is doomed. Its got good enough player base. It has not reached its potential in the same sense as all the americans who has not and will not become the president... in that sense, you can say CoH2 is a failure cause it had potential but to be honest what doesn't?

Of course you can't. Smith and miragefla were smart to break the mod into smaller pieces, which were then cut into the Fall Balance mod. Everything would be heading in the right direction, except the amount of changes that slipped in the Fall Balance is unjustifiably small. The scope doesn't include pieces of balance that do not interfere with each other; why is the scope 'teamgames' and not 'teamgames and conscripts for example which are in dire need of help and would arguably help balance the teamgames even more which are the damn scope by the way', I don't know. There are a lot more things that could be packed into the patch and not doing harm, but: the scope.

Unavailability of resources is not an excuse for scrapping a lot of good (not all of them of course) changes made by the community team, which made a complete package ready to be delivered (let's skip the validity of changes for dopehaircut's sake).

Note that I did not claim CoH2 is a failure; the patch and scope system is a failure because of execution. The game has potential which could be greatly utilized if the interval between patches decreases. CoH2 is also not doomed; see that what I wrote is doomed to be spoiled. And when it spoils, will the population drop? Not likely as the game is unique at this moment. And while it's good it can be made better so

kyle pls come on don't do this to me let them add more thx

that pack howitzer did horrible. in about 50 shots it got 2 kills lol

Well i find the calliope even worse^^

Just tried out the new IS2 ability. I quite like it! It causes quite a big explosion, like an artillery shell! However... Hitting enemies with it while also maneuvering is almost impossible. I would like to see this ability not get canceled by move orders. That aim time is way too long for it to be canceled like that.

with b), but dont you think you can't balance everything at once? it was different when it was only two factions but now there is five. the only way to properly balance is to, imo, smaller scale with smaller scope for each individual patches with higher frequencies (per month maybe?) I think the way the "scope" is thought of is completely out of touch with how it should be thought of imo. Instead of factions and units being in the "scope", it should be concepts like "call-ins", "inf-balance" etc etc.

the downside of smaller scale patches is that you have to plan ahead for how the future changes are gonna affect the small changes youre making now, because the game isnt a vacuum and everything is supposed to work together to balance everything. for example a faction can have weak infantry if they can make up for it another area, and this leads to asymetrical balance and imo more interesting dynamics. but if you just have a small patch that focuses around infantry balance, then the tendency is for infantry to become homogenized so that they are balanced when fighting each other without taking into account other factors because they are 'out of scope' or because they may not be as obvious. and as you say, smaller patches are ok if theres a higher frequency, but the reality seems to be that relic doesnt want to have frequent patches.

> Nefred the late game crutches of both OST and OKW.
> Buffed the already OP TD of USF.
> Very little focus on what community is calling out (see cancer placements, penals/conscripts, etc, etc)

Guess time to shelve this game for good.
GG no re Relic.

> Nefred the late game crutches of both OST and OKW.
> Buffed the already OP TD of USF.
> Very little focus on what community is calling out (see cancer placements, penals/conscripts, etc, etc)

Guess time to shelve this game for good.
GG no re Relic.

In what world is the M36 Jackson OP?
No matter, you barely play this game anyway it seems, heh.