Relic wanted feedback for CoH1 vs CoH2

If they focus on the wrong things again it may well be the end of the COH franchise, if they make the right decisions we might see a COH game that rivals any Esports game out there and COH will be more popular than it ever has been.

Part of the problem was DLC, though that can be handled if the game is made well enough.

The other part I think isn't understanding what made COH1 so successful. The fetish for difference is the design mistake. The description earlier in this post of the actual differences between the COH2 factions and how they played strategically was pretty brilliant. The strategic goals were asymmetric more so than the factions. So you could play similar factions and they felt very different. But the designers of COH2 (who were also the designers of PE/Brits in COH1 I think) developed a fetish for difference in faction rather than play. That fetish will damage future progress if it continues.

If they are making CoH3 I hope they learn from other developers and hire people from the community to develop the game.

This inane surveys are pointless because they don't bother reading them.

Blizzard, Riot, Hi-Rez, Capcom, Netherealm, Arc System Works etc. the list goes on and on.

Where did you learn to count ?

Relic has been going from failure to failure for 3 years at least, there has been TONS of people to warn them or other promoting coh2 through tournament and get NO consideration at all from this company (people during coh2 beta can relate)

I would be very surprised that SEGA gives them funds to make another AAA game.
In my opinion, they are actually finally trying to understand what's wrong with them but it won't lead to anything big like coh3, i would bet on smaller games or DLC for Coh2/Dow3.

@Relic : If you ever read this post, you should try smartphone game, much easier.

http://steamcharts.com/cmp/231430,572410

Sturmtiger Cobra predict a CoH3 for loyal CoH1/CoH2 fans:


https://www.coh2.org/topic/61389/2020-coh-3-is-becoming-more-real-by-every-day/page/3#post_id616034

Where did you learn to count ?

Relic has been going from failure to failure for 3 years at least, there has been TONS of people to warn them or other promoting coh2 through tournament and get NO consideration at all from this company (people during coh2 beta can relate)

I would be very surprised that SEGA gives them funds to make another AAA game.
In my opinion, they are actually finally trying to understand what's wrong with them but it won't lead to anything big like coh3, i would bet on smaller games or DLC for Coh2/Dow3.

@Relic : If you ever read this post, you should try smartphone game, much easier.

On school, you?
Its so much fun to see your posts

Bcs they deserve a second chance and you shouldn't stay in the past

Wasn't DoW3 like their fourth chance?

As for their poll, I think they've no reason to act on the responses except for their own interests.
You might think they'll compare CoH1 and CoH2, and make a perfect CoH3 that has best of both worlds, but in reality they'll just look for something that's good enough to sell but not good enough to keep you coming back.

Which, to be honest, is not even that bad a scheme if they weren't so terrible in implementing it in the first place!

So much bitterness... The game is in the best place it's ever been since all factions were added. I liked CoH1 when I played it, but now when I watched a few of Dane's CoH1 casts, I'm very glad I play Coh2 now.

So much bitterness... The game is in the best place it's ever been since all factions were added. I liked CoH1 when I played it, but now when I watched a few of Dane's CoH1 casts, I'm very glad I play Coh2 now.

It is, many of us regret that it's taken years to achieve this when making COH2 great was an open goal at the beginning. THQ's problems were a major factor but there were, in the opinion of many, design and commercial decisions that not only damaged the game initially but continued to hamper it. We can't all get what we want but if asked for our opinions I don't see any point in holding back

The only thing I want for coh3 is 3d models more realistic and historical

I think that CoH2 beats CoH1 in almost every single aspect. True sight, better and comfortable mechanics, territory design + capping system. Well ok, teamgame balance isn't perfect at all since forever, but that counts for CoH1 as well. Teamgames are almost impossible to balance.

There are only 2 things about CoH2 that I hate with a passion compared to CoH1, and that's

1) the stupid mortar design in this game. In CoH2 we have mortars (that includes the OKW ISG) with a brainless auto-fire range. And why the fck is a single mortar shell capable of wiping an entire full health squad in this game???!

2) the Forward Retreat Point nonsense for 3(!) factions in CoH2. FRP is a mechanic that not a single competitive RTS needs. In CoH1 there was only the Brits and their FRP bren blob + lieutenant meta, and that was alrdy annoying enough

Is Relic still reading this forum? Are all these posts even being read or is it just us asking for things that will never happen?

Sometimes I wonder, if we as the community had the budget that we all came together and build a coh game from scratch we would actually be able to do a far better job than relic. Because if the latest few games they released proof anything. Is that they are unable to make it click.

-ps, I think that the veterans should come together and make a book or design document of this game, just in case.

Is Relic still reading this forum? Are all these posts even being read or is it just us asking for things that will never happen?

They read only the official forums.

Answer to all questions : Bring back CoH Online

+10000

I think the past is the past. CoH2 had a rough start but look at the situation right now, the game is great.

I think the past is the past. CoH2 had a rough start but look at the situation right now, the game is great.

Just don't burn out from the beginning all the people excited to make your game great. AKA don't shoot yourself again.

In the case we get CoH3, i don't want to see the same mistakes/decisions done during the first year of release and having to wait 2/3 years for the game to be in a good state.

I don't think/want balance done by the community exclusively but using mods/test server to try them before releasing them on the wild should be done without exception. How many bugs had been discovered by the community? How many of them have also been fixed by them?
Mod/world builder from day 1 pls. Work a bit more with mappers and have a constant map rotations of them. Just to avoid complications, you could have a "global" ban (so you don't waste bans) in these kind of testing maps if you want but let them be on normal automatch rotation. Once enough feedback/popularity is gathered, some of them could be part of the permanent rotation.

Gameplay wise:
-Hotkeys
-NEVER AGAIN STUPID RNG (AKA every plane crash tells a story). Moderate RNG use is fine. 1% chance of collapsing a building because someone snort inside, is not good.
-Commanders:
First of all, NEVER AGAIN the whole disaster as the current roster of EFA commanders.
Amalgamate from coh1 and coh2 system. We could have TOP 6/8 commanders (FOR ALL the lifespan of a faction) which have around 6-7 abilities which must unlocked. You don't unlock all 7 of them, cause you will have to choose from one or another ability at some point of the tree. Tree structure could vary. Ex: you could either have early, mid or late game alternative choices depending on the commander.
-Emplacement/Automatic i win button skills-units => Please no.

Monetization:
The system we have now is fine and would had solve the whole "P2W" commander release up to some point. If you want to let your creativity go wild, why not recover the whole theatre of war. From what i understand, the whole Co-OP mode on Starcraft 2 is more popular ATM than the whole sum of all the multiplayer game modes. If you want to release stupid Tiger Ace/Windustry YOLO commanders, do so for those game modes.

What CoH1 did better:

- User interface, it was was clear, military-looking, simple, and functional.
- Doctrines
- Voice acting
- Vehicles reversing slower than going forward (facilitating flanking and mobile operations, which are bread and butter of CoH franchise).

What CoH2 did better:

- Veterancy.
- Snipers. Still could stand being removed completely, they add nothing to the tactics of the game, make top of the ladder matches devolve into who can babysit their sniper better, and completely shatter immersion.
- The way CoH2 handles accuracy, penetration and armour is much better than coh1. However, vehicles need side armour.

What needs to be cut from CoH2:
- Super-units (both Axis and Allied) have to go, as well as call-ins that bypass teching. Medium tank vs medium tank is where this game shines, but all the AT weapons are calibrated for an ecosystem where King Tigers can hit the field at minute 30, so where does that leave medium tanks? They are in this weird place where they are just a stepping stone towards some better heavier stuff, or worse, they are a call-in that is to be spammed to death in lieu of teching.

- British style of static emplacements, OKW trucks, forward retreat points. The game is not about that. Defensive options should be given but they should be mobile as CoH is all about SHIFTING FRONTS AND COUNTERATTACKS.

- Business model. The DLC cashgrab was an unmitigated disaster, which in my opinion created so many bad reviews for CoH2 that Relic probably lost much more money in missed sales than it ever did recoup from commander / DLC purchases.

- Bulletins. In general, the idea of modifying your army loadout a bit in addition to just commander choice is great! Except the bulletin bonuses are pathetic, and good game design is granular and chunky. So instead of 3 crappy bulletins, why not have just 1 bulletin slot, but make bulletins really strong and impactful? Like batshit insane bonuses : "81mm mortars have +33% range", or "grenadiers get 1 extra squadmember at T2", or "Get free conscript squad with every tank built"... the more insane the better (how can it be imbalanced if EVERYONE gets a slot for equally insane bulletins).

Where possibly both COH1 or COH2 fell short - the untapped potential?

- I have so many things to list here, but I am so interested in one feature in particular that I will forego all others : MORE LOVE FOR TEAM GAMES.

Take a look at the 10 most played games on Steam, and they virtually all have in common is the strong focus on multiplayer: DoTA 2, CS:GO, Team Fortress, Rocket League, PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS etc. I am not saying that Relic needs to emulate these games, but I am saying is that obviously the potential for mass success lies in the more massive multiplayer modes. But if you are alergic to money, by all means, stick to 1v1s. Take a look at the CoH2 player stats per game mode. There is a stigma that 4v4 is for scrubs and cheese tactics, which happens because a game balanced around 1v1 core gameplay is hilariously inadequate for 4v4s (fuel caches anyone?)

This was a classic mistake with Dawn of War 3, where Relic put in some MOBA-like elements while remaining 1v1 oriented, which is quite literally missing the point that ended up pissing off everyone. CoH needs epic large battles with wide fronts. Although cat-and-mouse tense 1v1 outsmarting is also cool, a lot, and I mean A LOT of people play CoH2 for its feel of massive ww2 battles and Relic needs to focus on this first and foremost. 1v1 mode in Rocket League is an afterthought, the default mode is 3v3. The CoH franchise needs exactly this sort of approach to appeal to a broad audience.

What do I play?

It's all about PvP for me. I play team games in automatch with friends, 1v1 automatch, and sometime mods.

It's called wisdom, Hooli. Most of the questions asked in the OP were answered specifically and in great detail back during the COH2 beta in these very forums. Marcus and I personally gathered and organized a group of top COH1 players and community contributors to provide feedback before the launch of COH2. Our private feedback forums are still there to see as a log of this interaction, and Relic can still access them.

Those of us that love the beauty of the core Company of Heroes design achievement saw time and time again how our feedback was ignored, how a flawed business model was prioritized over make-or-break gameplay issues. The COH2 commander system is a perfect example.

We've seen the incredible enthusiasm of these community members crushed as their interactions with Relic inevitably go south. We've seen Relic churn through "beta feedback groups" like chopped liver, opting to discard the current group if they don't like what they hear, only to be surprised that the next group has the exact same complaints.

Doesn't relic have a number of new employees working there now? Would you give them a chance and not making the same as others?

Doesn't relic have a number of new employees working there now? Would you give them a chance and not making the same as others?

The problem was from upper level management not the average employee.