Eastern Front Armies Revamp

FRPs need to be either removed or included for all factions. An argument can be made that armies are different etc, but I simply do not see anything that EFAs have which could possibly compensate for a FRP, especially on larger maps in teamgames.

Non-doctrinal open-topped troop transports that also act as reinforcement points. Their armies lack infantry mobility in general. The only non-doctrinal "APC" is the Bren Carrier, which is laughable when compared to even the Soviet M3 Scout Car.

And what is even more deplorable is the way the modding duo ignore every feedback, criticism and opinions expressed by Axis players.

But why should they?

This is their own private mod. This is not an official mod, nor is it a mod that is going to be implemented into the game.

They are the same people who enjoyed the opportunity to make the last community patches.

But this is not one of those patches.

The team can make flying Elefants that fire infantry models for all I care.

Hey mod team! You guys realize that if these changes go live, that USF and UKF have an insane advantage since they have superior infantry and a frp still?

Considering Relic's patch frequency, this wil be months of unfair advantages to players that have acces to these abilities whilst others don't.

That is exactly why the okw changes are separated from efa ones. They probably won't go in with efa changes but with the wfa ones.

@Mr.Smith: maybe it would be worth it to open another thread with wfa changes not to confuse people?

Non-doctrinal open-topped troop transports that also act as reinforcement points. Their armies lack infantry mobility in general.

Fair point. I would just like to say that using transports to ferry your troops from the base to the frontline is something I virtually never see, transporting stuff is much more often used to get behind MGs, for instance. This is probably due to micro requirements and how cumbersome loading into transports is.

Also, using halftracks to reinforce on the front requires soft retreating, which is not always possible, is micro intensive and in the end probably ends up taking the unit off the frontlines longer than actually retreating to FRP does (especially considering FRPs are usually paired with a healing option, which for EFA is more complex to achieve).

In contrast, forward retreat points usually require a smaller investment (that is, if they don't come free with teching outright as in the case of US), there is no micro involved, and they work for any number of squads. Keeping your halftrack alive and near the frontlines is also additional micro tax in itself.

Keep in mind that soft retreating not only takes longer than hard retreating and is more micro intensive, but also your troops are more vulnerable because they miss out on the retreat modifiers of speed and damage resistance, which means they will a) spend more time under enemy fire, b) this time spent will happen without protective modifiers, or c) they will have to soft retreat earlier than they would hard retreat.

So in conclusion, I do not believe these transports begin to even remotely make up for forward retreat points. It is however one of faction advantages, certainly, in the same way Conscript merge and Ostheer bunkers are. Lack of on-the-field reinforcement for WFA factions is definitely something that should be considered in the course of balancing the game.

That is exactly why the okw changes are separated from efa ones. They probably won't go in with efa changes but with the wfa ones.

@Mr.Smith: maybe it would be worth it to open another thread with wfa changes not to confuse people?

EFA revamp are supposed to provide the standard.
OKW changes are supposed to be on-par with EFA revamp factions; not live-version factions

Currently the mod supports two match-ups which are meant to be fair and balanced:
- Soviets vs OST
- Soviets vs OKW

Eventually when we are happy with the two above matchups, we will also add the necessary changes to the two remaining factions, so that all 6 match-ups are possible in the mod.

snip

So in conclusion, I do not believe these transports begin to even remotely make up for forward retreat points. It is however one of faction advantages, certainly, in the same way Conscript merge and Ostheer bunkers are. Lack of on-the-field reinforcement for WFA factions is definitely something that should be considered in the course of balancing the game.

While I agree completely that FRPs require much less micro and is less risky in terms of pure reinforcement capability, transport play can be very frustrating to play against too. Everyone knows of the infamous clown car technique in the early game, which occasionally still stirs riots, add that stems as a result from not necessarily the reinforcement advantage, but the rather the advantage of just letting carried troops fire out in the first place. Also, the transports are a relatively small loss as opposed to the costs of a developed FRP if destroyed. Additionally, the halftrack has the obvious advantage of being mobile, which makes it much more survivable in the hands of a careful player. I can agree that it's an underused tactic as opposed to the almost mandatory FRP upgrades; it's unfortunate that despite all the love halftracks got since WBP, halftrack play is still rare. Though it's still certainly not an equal trade, I believe that it is a lot closer than you would think at first glance.

On the previous page I advocated for the introduction of an OKW APC by retooling the 251 Stuka to replace the mobility loss of MedTruck's FRP. Maybe you'd be interested in that approach? totally not shameless self-promotion or anything like that

Why have bundle grenades been nerfed but penal satchels been left unchanged. I am not advocating any grenades/satchels should destroy buildings, rather the opposite. But penal special snowflake status is getting boring.

Countering penals takes far more micro as ostheer than necessary, mainly in that if you get distracted or misclick or are slightly slow on reacting then your squads can be wiped. A soviet player on the other hand basically only has to avoid mgs and not loose his cut off, because they will win every other engagement.

Penals are still braindead troll build, where abilities/upgrades require no tech, just do it when necessary cause its cheap and soviets swim in munis.

I find it hypocritical that so many other abilities have been nerfed ( mostly for the better ) but penals just remain somehow separate just because they are more expensive and require t1 ( like ostheer ). I would far prefer that sov t1 is built quicker or penals are built quicker or cost less and be less bs.

Edit : Or make penals more expensive but t1 cheaper so that the sov player can only build one or two.

It just seems that the mod team is soviet favoured to me, on this issue at least.

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Make MG42 T2 and make it more expensive so that German player can only make one.
Also, remove rifle grenade, because it is boring when German kills my units.
Also make it so Germans can never have more than one tank at a time, but also nerf it.
... That's what you sound like.

It would be a lot more funner if soviet engineers could 1 shot enemy base with pistol.

- Penals satchels have very short range. If you had the same limitation, you'd want it improved.
- Penals cost 300. MG42 costs 260. MG42 can pin/destroy an entire ball of Penals.
- Penals have been gotten nerfs as well, don't worry.
- I assure you the mod team is more axis-oriented, but they have to at least appear impartial

- I for one find the changes interesting. I've long been a fan of Mirageflas's mods.
- And honestly, since January? The bug fixes? Just OMG.

- FRP to be all removed? (OKW Medic one)(Soviet's FRP)(Ambulance+Major)(BRitish's FRP+Retreat point?)

I haven't seen the 1.7 mod changes yet. Am looking for them.

EFA revamp are supposed to provide the standard.
OKW changes are supposed to be on-par with EFA revamp factions; not live-version factions

Currently the mod supports two match-ups which are meant to be fair and balanced:
- Soviets vs OST
- Soviets vs OKW

Eventually when we are happy with the two above matchups, we will also add the necessary changes to the two remaining factions, so that all 6 match-ups are possible in the mod.

Righttttt, so that basically means that two factions will remain to have insane advantages until patched 7 montsh later.

lol

Righttttt, so that basically means that two factions will remain to have insane advantages until patched 7 montsh later.

lol

Why exactly do you think this mod is going live soon (or ever) ?

Why exactly do you think this mod is going live soon (or ever) ?

If parts of it go live, which most likely will be the case since Relic loves to use other people's work and do nothing themselves, it will result in horrible balance at first.

I think a lot of these changes are interesting....
However I hope it remains as a mod and not implemented into the live version. Why? Too many people disagree with many of these changes including myself.

Excellent effort guys but I think your mod is taking out way too much of the taste of the game.

since axis infantery is crap (volks cant win vs penals, tommys, double wilding bar rifles), cant deal with tanks, pios only good a close range, grens (and most of the ost other squads) are a 4model squishy squad,


yeah....axis infantery need a huge nerf...lol

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He was talking about Volksgrenadiers, and Sturmpioneers. (OKW)
Not Wehrmacht units.

PS : GRenadiers went from 7 to 6 pop. And got a number of buffs, recently.

Righttttt, so that basically means that two factions will remain to have insane advantages until patched 7 montsh later.

lol

Could you cite your sources for this prediction? Like, somebody that knows the timeschedule for the patches. Or, your experience playing OST/OKW vs USF in the mod?

Thanks.

If Relic would only add a check box that would give the option to queue for regular automatch and/or modded automatch, (meaning both simultaneous or just one type) the testing process would be a lot better/faster.

Then someone would have only to specify which mod he want, then check the relevant option for queuing for both/one type of automatch.

This wouldn't split the community, give faster matches and help the balancing process.

They can do it. Plz Devs help us !!!

Could you cite your sources for this prediction? Like, somebody that knows the timeschedule for the patches. Or, your experience playing OST/OKW vs USF in the mod?

Thanks.

Lets see, I have owned and played this game since its release day in 2013. I have lived through the periods of no patch for 6 months when the game was totally broken. I can bet quite safely on the patch frequency of Relic. It will take at least 3 to 4 months for a follow up patch to get released, at the least that is.

As for having played against it, yes I have. I have played as Ostheer in a 1v1 and 2v2 many times and have faced frp on maps where I had to retreat back to berlin. It isn't fun, it isn't fair and it is above all very unbalanced.

Is this your fault? No! However, it is something you should take into account. I am all in for removing frp, but I just hope they get removed from the other factions asap as well.

you dont like FRP ? ok then make a mod without FTP and play it but you cant remove FRP from the game, FRP is a main feature for western front armies + you cant remove anything from the game, you can just apply nerfs or buffs. removing FRP from OKW, UKF and USF is 100% unacceptable.

it's your word vs others. no argument you put out here is at all empirical, has more higher ground than others' or even 1 per cent objective. accept that and you'll be able to accept FRP going away in this beta patch... for now.

Righttttt, so that basically means that two factions will remain to have insane advantages until patched 7 montsh later.

lol

There's nothing to say that they won't balance the other two factions within the mod like they did with okw. Whether or not relic releases it all at the same time is unknown, but there's no way to fix that.

Tested in with someone with OKW/SU and OST/SU. Cons are too damn good for their cost right now. Straight up winning vs Volks close range given they manage to get the jump on them and even trades very effectively with upgunned vetted Volks with their own vet. 2 Cons squads which is not that rare given 4 Cons start will walk over lone upgunned Grens/Volks. A nerf to a bit close range damage would suffice until more tests are done.

Maxims should not do that much damage given their suppression is OK now.

Penals are still too powerful given their cost. Walks over everything without even trying. Light vehicles are kinda neutered against them since its usually 1 LV vs 3 Penals. Penals/Cons combo are even LUL since Cons have AT snare, can hold their own vs infantry and Penals with PTRS will shave snared LVs alive.

Guards are fine with their current performance, no complaints there.

Grenades that just cover the door will wipe any squads trying to exit since you can't control them. I see that some buildings with only one exit will be a death sentence against Bundled nades, LGB.

OKW still gets eaten alive with M3 flamers.

Howitzers as SU are absolute blast to play, just hammering the base non-stop and wiping any unlucky squads the entire match. Forces the opponent to go for off map barrages that exactly pinpoint the place, making current meta commanders weaker vs Howitzer play like Command Panther, Mechanised Assault(the barrage doesn't destroy the piece in one go) and Lightning War.

EDIT: Oh yeah forgot Penals/Guards combo is back on the menu.

it's your word vs others. no argument you put out here is at all empirical, has more higher ground than others' or even 1 per cent objective. accept that and you'll be able to accept FRP going away in this beta patch... for now.

1. FRP is a part of western front armies and cant be remove.
2. they can add FRP to ostheer and soviet for better balance and increase time of reinforce for FRP.

1. FRP is a part of western front armies and cant be remove.
2. they can add FRP to ostheer and soviet for better balance and increase time of reinforce for FRP.

They removed blizzards because they are stupid and those were a core part of the game. FRPs are just as stupid and degrade gameplay, so why not remove them?