How to counter this 2v2 double OKW meta?

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:05 AMSturmpanther

I think nobody has a problem that OKW can reinforce on the T1. Its just the forward retread point! I mean you blob in, retread, 30 sec later you are on the field again and blob again...

This does no matter in 1vs1 I know, but in 2vs2-4vs4.

And I have no problem to kill the forward retread point from brits as well.

I think USA is fine, Major comes very late. But for OKW and Brits this FRP is just non sense shit

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 09:46 AMMr.Smith

To be able to take FRPs out, you need to start thinking of field reinforcement options for those factions. EFA are not exactly helpless on this, as they have their non-doc halftracks. OST can also build command bunkers.

Halftrack reinforcing does require micro, but it pays dividents for it, as you can reinforce also on enemy sectors.

For USF we can probably add a speed governors upgrade (that requires tech, though) to the ambulance to make it move faster, and maybe even allow reinforcing to work outside friendly territory.

For UKF, we can always make their M5 available non-doc, and tie Vickers/PIAT dropping to the doctrine.

The big question is what happens for OKW. While I Know that T1 & T4 is cancer to take out, the faction itself lacks the tools. We can't add 251, because OKW lacks the skins for it. IRHT should probably not be available non-doc.
- Should we allow walking stuka to reinforce on-the-field?
- Should we lift the restriction on MedHQ to allow them to be built elswhere too? (but made both weaker and cheaper)?

If OKW is to be the aggressive faction they need some way to maintain field presence. FRP are a low-micro brute-force of achieving this. Being able to only reinforce near fixed locations is an enormous disadvantage.

I know that OKW behaves more than turtle-incarnate faction rather than an aggressive faction. However, this can change if they no longer trivially-win the lategame.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:19 AMDangerous-Cloth

OKW has bunkers right? Give it a reinforcement/med bunkerish thing like Ostheer has.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:28 AMMr.Smith

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:28 AMMr.Smith

The problem here is that OKW doesn't have the amazing team weapons that OST has. Axis already has OST acting as the de-facto defensive faction.

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:43 AMIntelligence209

Why don't you just make it to where OKW doesn't have a frp? 9/10 times I don't build my medic truck outside my base I fear of artillery.

So just reduce battlegrouo to home sector but give meds for free once again.

I mean not every faction needs a frp or a field reinforcing unit right?

This is all in assumption of rocket arty and brace being nerf so OKW has a chance against such units

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:05 AMSturmpanther

I think nobody has a problem that OKW can reinforce on the T1. Its just the forward retread point! I mean you blob in, retread, 30 sec later you are on the field again and blob again...

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 10:28 AMMr.Smith

The problem here is that OKW doesn't have the amazing team weapons that OST has. Axis already has OST acting as the de-facto defensive faction.

If you take away FRPs and don't give mobile reinforcement options to OKW, there will be no incentive for them to ever launch an offensive (otherwise, a bad retreat means that your trucks will be swept away). In that case OST will be the defensive faction, and OKW will become the super-turtle faction.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 14:05 PMTüMe

what sturmpanther said. problem is not the reinforce eventually. problem is the low apm one click retreat behind bush to ur hq. i dont mean you shouldnt be able to do it anymore, you can still do it in front of ur enemy base if u feel like. you just have to care ur units back there, and not have easy way one click out of shit. and in the end. any1 could say ''usf has the same'' well, one stuka barrage to usf forward retreat point and u lose atleast major and ambulance. also usf retreat point cost 120fuel. okw just loses 5% hp from hq if u do the same. But if it bothers some1, should remove all factions frp, to put all factions in same line with this. hts/ambulances,bunkers and trucks still having the heal/reinforce ability, just not the frp.


edit. If u look gentlefoxs stream sometimes, and watch how he uses HT and reinforce ability, for ostheer, thats how every1 else should use it too. requires some work in front line, but eventually if ur opponent doesnt make any move, pays off.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 14:05 PMTüMe

edit. If u look gentlefoxs stream sometimes, and watch how he uses HT and reinforce ability, for ostheer, thats how every1 else should use it too. requires some work in front line, but eventually if ur opponent doesnt make any move, pays off.

Jump back to quoted post19 May 2017, 09:59 AMMr.Smith

I agree with you here.

I don't disagree that FRPs should be, ideally, removed from the game.

What I'm trying to establish alternatives for OKW. Having a tech-tied limited-to-1 immobile base will probably not be sufficient for the faction.

Jump back to quoted post19 May 2017, 10:11 AMaerafield

Then do it like the vCoH brit HQ so that the med HQ can deploy and re-deploy whenever it wants

Nah I think making reinforcement next to IRHT and/or Stuka possible would be a good first step then, we would see if this would be enough compensation or not.

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2017, 09:46 AMMr.Smith

To be able to take FRPs out, you need to start thinking of field reinforcement options for those factions. EFA are not exactly helpless on this, as they have their non-doc halftracks. OST can also build command bunkers.

Halftrack reinforcing does require micro, but it pays dividents for it, as you can reinforce also on enemy sectors.

For USF we can probably add a speed governors upgrade (that requires tech, though) to the ambulance to make it move faster, and maybe even allow reinforcing to work outside friendly territory.

For UKF, we can always make their M5 available non-doc, and tie Vickers/PIAT dropping to the doctrine.

The big question is what happens for OKW. While I Know that T1 & T4 is cancer to take out, the faction itself lacks the tools. We can't add 251, because OKW lacks the skins for it. IRHT should probably not be available non-doc.
- Should we allow walking stuka to reinforce on-the-field?
- Should we lift the restriction on MedHQ to allow them to be built elswhere too? (but made both weaker and cheaper)?

If OKW is to be the aggressive faction they need some way to maintain field presence. FRP are a low-micro brute-force of achieving this. Being able to only reinforce near fixed locations is an enormous disadvantage.

I know that OKW behaves more than turtle-incarnate faction rather than an aggressive faction. However, this can change if they no longer trivially-win the lategame.