Pack Howie Poem

Pack Howie why you so shitty,
Is it because you're priced ridiculously,
Is it because you get wiped easily,
Is it because your barrage tickles hilariously,
Is it because your little brother does your job godly,
Oh yes it does and it makes you shitty

The problem of the pack is that it cost too much, both the initial cost and the reinforce cost,
and that the vet 3 pen bonuses should apply to normal shoot too, not only the barrage

Eh, its not that it's bad it's moreso map dependent - the more likely you are to retreat then Mortars have a certain benefit. But any map (like Langres) where you can just park it somewhere and have it cover most of your important or contested points then its a beast because its AoE will just wipe models for days.

That being said I absolutely hate the "decrew at 2 models" mechanism when its crew is so squishy to being with.

I say give it six shells on barrage and a shorter cooldown so its more like a pocket ML-20 than a mortar. The decrew is also wonky as hell compared to other team weapons.

Bled Sib to death in a game with this unit two weeks ago (haven't played USF since). Unit is amazing in right hands. If anything the Pak Howie is too good at squad wipes.

I say give it six shells on barrage and a shorter cooldown so its more like a pocket ML-20 than a mortar. The decrew is also wonky as hell compared to other team weapons.

This is IMO the route we should go to make it more "desirable".

THIS COULD PROVE TO MAKE IT OP, but at least a worth a try:
-Heat shells (vet 2 barrage) becomes part of vet 0 barrage.
-Barrage now has an increased cooldown
-Barrage now fires 6 shells instead of 3. It could start slowly and ramp up to give time to relocate (the HEAT shells are REALLY good).
-Vet1 decreases cd barrage to current cd levels
-Vet2 unlocks White phosphorous barrage. This barrage doesn't share cooldown with normal barrage.
-EDIT: i'm sure HEAT shells would need a nerf. But make the barrage distinctively better than AA.

EditPD: if you want to know why i'm so "scared" of the heats shells...well take a look.
Show Spoiler


The AA should be a bonus (lower damage than barrage and that crappy 80 range for it's mobility and shooting arc) and what should see improved is it's baby howitzer type of usage. This should be the de facto unit USF should go when they need late game artillery (not just CalliOP or the old extinct Priest)

Its problem is it comes after any other mortar and get wreck by them...

It's supposed to be a miniature Howitzer, yet it feels like a weaker infantry gun.

Here is a quote from this guide. https://www.coh2.org/guides/59348/usf-combined-arms-keep-what-you-can-secure#2492

The M1 75mm Pack Howitzer is the most powerful non-doctrinal indirect fire weapon team. Its auto-attacks are devastating and its barrages can lay waste at very long range. The Howie’s auto attack matches that of mortars at a range of 80, while its barrage has a staggering range of 160. In comparison, the OKW LeiG has a range of 100. At vet 2, its barrage is replaced with HE rounds, greatly increasing its barrage damage output. HE rounds also deal a decent amount of damage to vehicles and tanks. Note: even though it has a crew of six, it will be decrewed if the team is reduced to less than three members.

Two Packs are very good but expensive. They will heavily bleed your opponent’s manpower. However, if you obtain them without proper support, you will lack reliable capping force and thus your enemy will outcap you, so he can obtain tanks more quickly. Go for a second Pack Howitzer, only if you can afford it without hurting your field presence, or when your enemy goes for a support weapon team heavy strategy.

This unit can be used both offensively and defensibly AT THE SAME TIME. Place the Howitzer near your forces, so it can help them deliver a final punch, force HMGs and PaKs to fall back and possibly even wipe clumped squads. Always reverse your Howitzer when the enemy attacks hard. so you do not lose it.

It is important to place the gun defensively! Target priorities are:
Heavy Machine Guns
Anti-Tank Guns
Groups of infantry
Static vehicles
Single infantry squads

One of the GCS matches had someone use this and it turned out okay for them. Their micro was good enough to keep it near the front line so the autofire shot a lot.

Unfortunately for it, the autofire range is the same as the Ost mortar and shorter than the ISG, which makes no sense. The problem is that it is difficult to do anything about the pack howie without making it badly OP. On open maps when someone is using a spotter, it can already wipe units like crazy. At vet 3 it becomes really good at taking down OKW trucks and wiping the sturm pios trying to repair the trucks.

If anything, it would be better if all regular mortars had their autofire range reduced to 60-65, and the mortar pit and ISG lowered to the pack howie's range (80). Then it might make sense to compensate for the nerf by improving barrage on everything.

The problem of the pack is that it cost too much, both the initial cost and the reinforce cost,
and that the vet 3 pen bonuses should apply to normal shoot too, not only the barrage

I do actually love the pack howie.

I think it gets the pen bonuses at vet2. It definitely does cost too much as you said, and often like 3-4 guys get killed by one stray shell or something since its a clumpy six-man team, but it decrews at 2(?) guys so it is really only a four man squad. Also, the barrage shoots literally 3 shells and has a ridiculous cooldown. Either the barrage should have like a 15-20 second cooldown or it should shoot wayyyy more shells (at least 2x as many IMO). I would personally vote for the 15-20 second cooldown to keep it more unique. I mean, it is a pretty unique unit. It has awful auto fire range, so the barrage is supposed to be good, but it isn't that outstanding, especially for (lul) 380 manpower.

One of the GCS matches had someone use this and it turned out okay for them. Their micro was good enough to keep it near the front line so the autofire shot a lot.

Unfortunately for it, the autofire range is the same as the Ost mortar and shorter than the ISG, which makes no sense. The problem is that it is difficult to do anything about the pack howie without making it badly OP. On open maps when someone is using a spotter, it can already wipe units like crazy. At vet 3 it becomes really good at taking down OKW trucks and wiping the sturm pios trying to repair the trucks.

If anything, it would be better if all regular mortars had their autofire range reduced to 60-65, and the mortar pit and ISG lowered to the pack howie's range (80). Then it might make sense to compensate for the nerf by improving barrage on everything.

I thought the ost mortar had a longer range than the pack howie. And if it doesn't, it for sure does after vetting up (or did they change that?). Still, killing okw trucks and wiping units at ranges slightly longer than mg reach is pretty niche for a unit 20 less manpower than obers.

I'd rather get a Scott than this unit, serves a similar purpose while being less vulnerable to infantry units.

This is IMO the route we should go to make it more "desirable".

THIS COULD PROVE TO MAKE IT OP, but at least a worth a try:
-Heat shells (vet 2 barrage) becomes part of vet 0 barrage.
-Barrage now has an increased cooldown
-Barrage now fires 6 shells instead of 3. It could start slowly and ramp up to give time to relocate (the HEAT shells are REALLY good).
-Vet1 decreases cd barrage to current cd levels
-Vet2 unlocks White phosphorous barrage. This barrage doesn't share cooldown with normal barrage.
-EDIT: i'm sure HEAT shells would need a nerf. But make the barrage distinctively better than AA.

EditPD: if you want to know why i'm so "scared" of the heats shells...well take a look.
Show Spoiler

The AA should be a bonus (lower damage than barrage and that crappy 80 range for it's mobility and shooting arc) and what should see improved is it's baby howitzer type of usage. This should be the de facto unit USF should go when they need late game artillery (not just CalliOP or the old extinct Priest)

IMO it'd be better to just decrease the cooldown. Imagine how fast 2 vetted pack howies (or even just one) could take out a flakhq from halfway across the map. Then imagine all the raging okw players (for good reason) XD. It would also rape engine damaged kts and elefants and the like (which would be interesting).

IMO it'd be better to just decrease the cooldown. Imagine how fast 2 vetted pack howies (or even just one) could take out a flakhq from halfway across the map. Then imagine all the raging okw players (for good reason) XD. It would also rape engine damaged kts and elefants and the like (which would be interesting).

2 Pack Howies are more expensive than real Howitzers. Noted, you could just lower the damage to structures through target table to same as mortar shells.

Reminder that Pack Howie would shoot like artillery, which means scatter. Mind that i do think that the 160 range is excessive and the extra range at vet3 is unneeded.

I thought the ost mortar had a longer range than the pack howie. And if it doesn't, it for sure does after vetting up (or did they change that?). Still, killing okw trucks and wiping units at ranges slightly longer than mg reach is pretty niche for a unit 20 less manpower than obers.

I think the autofire range is the same as the vet 0 Ost mortar but it doesn't get any vet bonus to autofire range. When the Ost mortar gets to vet 3, it gets a 33% longer barrage range, but I don't think that is really part of the pack howie's problem.

One of the bigger issues is the pop cap, which is 11 (even more than Obers). Just getting one of them is a significant decrease in mp income.

I think the autofire range is the same as the vet 0 Ost mortar but it doesn't get any vet bonus to autofire range. When the Ost mortar gets to vet 3, it gets a 33% longer barrage range, but I don't think that is really part of the pack howie's problem.

One of the bigger issues is the pop cap, which is 11 (even more than Obers). Just getting one of them is a significant decrease in mp income.

Wait it's 11 popcap? And stugs are still 8. kappa.

2 Pack Howies are more expensive than real Howitzers. Noted, you could just lower the damage to structures through target table to same as mortar shells.

Reminder that Pack Howie would shoot like artillery, which means scatter. Mind that i do think that the 160 range is excessive and the extra range at vet3 is unneeded.

True true. Usf can't even make real howitzers though. I think I am starting to like your idea, as HEAT shells every 20 seconds or so would be even more op I think. Does anyone remember the current barrage cooldown at vet0 and vet3? I seem to remember it being relatively long but I haven't used it in a while.

I think the autofire range is the same as the vet 0 Ost mortar but it doesn't get any vet bonus to autofire range. When the Ost mortar gets to vet 3, it gets a 33% longer barrage range, but I don't think that is really part of the pack howie's problem.

The moment you get you pak Howi, OSt mortar are already vet1/2, vet3, they're starting shooting at your pack from safe distance.

When and if we get to it, my suggestions for the pack howitzer, as a start would be to reduce the cooldown on the barrage. Off the top of my head, I think it's 60 seconds when it should be 40-45.

After that, possibly add between 1-3 rounds to REGULAR and WP barrage, and let HEAT be another barrage gained at vet 2 that does not overtake standard HE. This makes the regular barrage better at area denial and attacking OKW trucks.